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HeliHobby . Ron’s HeliProz South . Century Helicopter

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e-Mikado Logo 400 500 600 > Logo 500 power train for 10s A123
 
 
fergus
Veteran
Location: Ireland

I dropped loads of hints to my wife about what I wanted for Christmas. I have an inkling that Santa (i.e Jamie at www.fast-lad.co.uk) could be coming up trumps with a Logo 500 3d

I have been considering power options and have definitely decided on A123 cells as I already have a Mastech so charge time will be very fast. The most likely option is 10s1p. Next thing is motor and ESC options.

The Hacker A40 10L 8 pole or Tango 45-10 look good but can anyone tell me if they can handle the high initial voltage of 10s A123 (36.5volts)

Same question for the ESC. I had considered running the Kontronik Jazz 55-10-32 but the lack of a BEC is a little off putting. Can anyone recommend a good alternative that will handle 36.5volts, has a good governor mode and a BEC to save on weight.

All inputs welcome guys. Anyone running 10s1p A123? Whats your flight times?

Regards

Fergus
12-14-2007 09:15 PM
 
 
laughingstill
Key Veteran
Location: Gainesville, Fl, USA

Great motor and ESC choices. I ran 10s A123 cells in my Logo 5003D but I was using a CC 85 HV and a Z30A-800 motor Loads of power! The Tango 45-10 is around 1000KV right? You need one in the 800kv range. I think the 45-08 is a better option for that given setup. The ESC will be great just buy a seperate BEC anyway because the BECs built in to most ESCs will not perform as well as the exterior options. Good Luck...Ron

3DMP-E, Logo 6003D, Logo103D Carbon and Trex 450se Flyin Firefighter
12-14-2007 09:21 PM
 
 
fergus
Veteran
Location: Ireland

Thanks Ron. That Tango has a Kv of 1050. I thought the motor speed might be a bit high at that voltage. I had read that 10s A123 in 1p do not hold their voltage well under load so it would be closer to 7s lipo rather than 9s as would be expected given the cell voltages. Hence the confusion! EDIT: Tango 45-08 might be a better option.

What pinion gear did you run and which mod 5 or 7? What were your flight times and headspeed? Thanks again.

Has anyone tried the Hercules BEC rated for 11s with the selectable output. If so what do you think?

Regards

Fergus
12-14-2007 10:15 PM
 
 
laughingstill
Key Veteran
Location: Gainesville, Fl, USA

A 10sA123 will be more like an 8s lipo. I was using .7 mod gears and a 15 tooth pinion. My flight times were anywhere from 6-9 minutes depending on what I was doing. I cannot comment on the Hercules BEC as I used a Kool flight UBEC.....Ron

3DMP-E, Logo 6003D, Logo103D Carbon and Trex 450se Flyin Firefighter
12-14-2007 10:58 PM
 
 
fergus
Veteran
Location: Ireland

Thanks again Ron.

Current leaning is towards:

Tango 45-08
Jazz 55-10-32
Kontronik BEC 30

I am tempted to try a different brand but have really liked the Kontronik ESC's and motors in my other helis.

I am going to give the Spartan DS760 a go on the tail.

Anyone any advice on blade length. I want maximum flight duration?

Regards

Fergus
12-14-2007 11:10 PM
 
 
rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

I run 10s1p a123, Zpower Z30A-800, .7mod with 17tpinion (maybe 16t have to check), CCHV85, Koolflight HVBEC (45volt), 100% head speed is in the 2300rpm range. I don't use CC HV85 Gov. mode, so I run a 100,90,100 throttle curve, fixed mode.

Power is ballistic with 5-6min flight times and EVERYTHING runs cool to cold afterwards.

AUW is 6lbs 4oz

I have to have close to 200 flights on the 10s pack and have zero problems with the battery.

I run MS 515mm blades currently.

The 10s1p a123 do not bog at all until they dump at the end (at least with my Hack 3D flying). The come off the charger at 36volts but will settle rather quickly in the 34volt range. Don't have a graph but I think they hold a solid 30-32volt during flight. I'm sure others can post graphs showing the constant voltage they hold.

Best bang for the buck!!!
12-14-2007 11:49 PM
 
 
fergus
Veteran
Location: Ireland

Thanks Rerazor I am definitely sold on A123. I have a few of them in 12s2p configuration in my Joker2. Have done some more research and am going to commit to 10s A123. Will also use the stonger mod .7 gears. So that means an 800 KV motor will be the correct choice. Anyone any other examples apart from the Kontronik with the same bullet proof performance?

Heard alot of mixed reviews of Castle Creation controllers in the past. Is the 85 a good model and anyone using the governor mode experiencing tail problems?

I will await some more feedback before going to alot of expense with Kontronik when others might be as good at a lower price. This Heli is a bit of an unexpected bonus project for the winter and I really hadn't done much research on the power systems people are using. Sorry if I am recovering old ground here but now that people have them a while and rung them out a bit I suppose its no harm getting up to date feedback. Especially since most people are probably using 6slipo and 1000 Kv motors and so a lower voltage which might not be comparable to whats found with the added voltage of 10S A123.

Regards

Fergus
12-15-2007 02:47 PM
 
 
elicocorico
Heliman
Location: France

Hello,
Rerazor ,you say:"Power is ballistic with 5-6min flight times "
It's 3D flying?
Thanks
12-15-2007 03:21 PM
 
 
rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

My "Hack 3D".

Don't get me wrong a lipo setup will beat it hands down but not for $100 in battery cost and my flying ability.
12-15-2007 10:09 PM
 
 
miragewsu
Senior Heliman
Location: Washington

I say stay away from the cc85hv. I had 2 different failures and said never again. The Jazz is worth it. I run 10s A123 with a 1910/1.5y. It's a nice setup! I power my reveiver and servos from a 2s lipo. With a BEC for the tail.
12-16-2007 08:49 AM
 
 
fergus
Veteran
Location: Ireland

Ya I had my doubts about CC Esc's. I think Kontronik is the way to go especially since I don't have the added outlay of paying for the kit (except a few months of doing the washing up ).

Regards

Fergus
12-16-2007 01:22 PM
 
 
rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

I agree the Jazz is the way to go. I have two HV85's and 2 HV45's that all run great on 10s a123 setups in fixed mode. I spent many hours working on the Gov. mode and gave up. The one Jazz I had on my little Trex was "set it and forget it". Best esc I ever had.
12-16-2007 02:48 PM
 
 
fergus
Veteran
Location: Ireland

Thanks for the pointers guys.

Is the end to end - two lines of 3 cells with two lines of two cells piggy backed on top the best 10s A123 configuration? If so should the two cells on top be mounted midway along the bottom row of 3, towards the front or towards the rear for close to correct CG in the 500? Hope that makes sense, has anyone pics of their 10s logo packs?


Is there an upgraded bearing option I read about for the higher voltage setups? Sorry don't know where I read it but thought it was mentioned in some of the early posts when guys had trouble with the origional stock motor mount melting and mod .5 gears stripping which I understand Ralph has since resolved by supplying mod.7 and alu mount. Any other considerations or mods you guys advise for 10s setups?

Thanks again

Regards

Fergus
12-17-2007 08:01 PM
 
 
laughingstill
Key Veteran
Location: Gainesville, Fl, USA

Use the .7 mod gears, aluminum motor mount, and you will be ok. On my 10s A123 setup, I put the two extra cells toward the back of the heli and it balanced fine....Ron

3DMP-E, Logo 6003D, Logo103D Carbon and Trex 450se Flyin Firefighter
12-17-2007 10:58 PM
 
 
rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

I put the two cells piggy back on top in the middle.
12-18-2007 12:23 AM
 
 
fergus
Veteran
Location: Ireland

Ye both refer to 'two extra cells' on top does that mean ye run two lines of 4 on the bottom?

Sorry just want to be clear

Regards

Fergus
12-18-2007 09:22 AM
 
 
laughingstill
Key Veteran
Location: Gainesville, Fl, USA

I ran six cells on the bottom shotgun style and four on the top shotgun style also.

3DMP-E, Logo 6003D, Logo103D Carbon and Trex 450se Flyin Firefighter
12-18-2007 11:30 AM
 
 
fergus
Veteran
Location: Ireland

Thanks again Ron

Tango 45-08, Jazz 55-10-32, Jazz BEC plus 15,16 and 17 mod.7 pinions ordered.

Still undecided on blades probably MS 515's

Regards

Fergus
12-18-2007 11:46 AM
 
 
laughingstill
Key Veteran
Location: Gainesville, Fl, USA

What other electronics will you be running (servos, bec, gyro/tail)?

3DMP-E, Logo 6003D, Logo103D Carbon and Trex 450se Flyin Firefighter
12-18-2007 11:58 AM
 
 
fergus
Veteran
Location: Ireland

Spartan DS 760 gyro and Futaba P-SBL251 tail servo. The BEC is the Kontronik 30 plus. I have a few spare Futaba S9206 servos from my Joker2 which I will try on the swash.

Did you get the 3dmp XL-E yet? What do you think of it.

Regards

Fergus
12-18-2007 12:48 PM
 
 
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MTA Hobbies . Model Rectifier Corp . RCHover

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e-Mikado Logo 400 500 600 > Logo 500 power train for 10s A123
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