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Aerial Photography and Video > sigma dp1
 
 
KC
Elite Veteran
Location: WA

I'm probably the only person excited about this stupid thing, especially after it was announced over a year ago and no one heard anything about it again.

the cool thing is that its a dslr sensor in a light little camera, perfect for logo 10 AP ships!

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0711/0...gmadp1delay.asp
12-05-2007 08:27 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
BigguyOz
Key Veteran
Location: Sydney, New South Wales, Australia

KC, if they get it right, that will be the duck's guts for AP work! I would rather wait till they hit their target than see it on the market before it is ready.

Tony Stott
Scenefromabove.com.au
Trex 450,AP2000i,Askman
8m mast
hot air balloon
kite
12-05-2007 12:48 PM
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KC
Elite Veteran
Location: WA

agreed. this thing will revolutionize the compact market if they are smart enough to get the price in league with g9 type cameras...who knows!
12-05-2007 08:21 PM
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SeismicCWave
Senior Heliman
Location: Hilo, Hawaii

I still can't see hauling up a DSLR to do AP work when a GOOD compact camera can do as well. Unfortunately there isn't any really good compact on the market to compete with the DSLR yet. I hope Sigma can do it right.

I am even considering hauling up a Leica M8 if some one can assure me that it is GOOD.
12-05-2007 08:52 PM
 
 
KC
Elite Veteran
Location: WA

theres a lot of clients who wouldnt agree
12-06-2007 07:38 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
SeismicCWave
Senior Heliman
Location: Hilo, Hawaii

>>theres a lot of clients who wouldnt agree <<

Sorry for the reply if you were not referring to my post. I am not sure if a client has anything to say about what gear we use. As long as we can deliver the quality to their satisfaction.

If the DP 1 has the same pixel count as the say Canon Rebel XTi and a sensor that is the same size, the image quality should in theory be similar. Of course I cannot compare a DP 1 to the Canon 5D, Nikon equivalent or the Hasselblad. However those cameras are a lot heavier and require a lot more overhead to carry up in the air.
12-06-2007 07:59 AM
 
 
rroback
Key Veteran
Location: Irvine (UCI), Ca

That isn't true. I would argue lense quality is quite significant. I used to use my 3 megapixel canon D30, even when 10 megapixel point and shoots were coming out, and they couldn't match the quality. You might be able to get dones of pixels crammed into a little chip, but a crappy lense ruins everything. It makes sense, as it is much easier to mass produce chips, then produce quality lenses. I own a little 10megapixel Leica point and shoot ( d-lux 3), but I have yet to feel comfortable enough to give pictures form the camera to my clients, who typically see my work form my 5d. Even with extensive post production, the color rendition, noise, and nearly every other aspect isn't the same. The Sd1 might end up being a fine camera, but don't trick yourself into believing it will be as good as a dslr. That's the same as suggesting a disposable camera, and a slr are the same, since they both use 35mm.

Rhett... There's no power like E Power!
12-06-2007 08:17 AM
 
 
KC
Elite Veteran
Location: WA

Seismic, yes it was a reference to your comment. For some, sensor size matters.

Rroback, for the estimated 600-900.00 street of this thing, its no disposable. the IQ I have seen from the sd14 it is based off of is certainly better than the latest hot-ticket compacts so it should be interesting to see what it is when it gets here.
12-06-2007 10:04 AM
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SeismicCWave
Senior Heliman
Location: Hilo, Hawaii

>> I would argue lense quality is quite significant.<<

Lens quality is very significant. I was hoping that the DP1 will have a relatively good lens.

If you haul up a Canon Rebel XTi with the kit 18 to 55 mm zoom lens the quality will not be any better than the proposed SD1. (Of course I am speculating).

So you are really talking about hauling up some better optics like the Canon L lens or the better Leica or Zeiss. Which translate to a lot of weight in glass.

>> I own a little 10megapixel Leica point and shoot ( d-lux 3)<<

I have one too and I cannot get the same image quality as my Canon A640 or G9. The little Leica is a big disappointment. That is my biggest reason for NOT getting the M8. I know the M8 is a different animal but bottom line is that Leica is not making the sensor and it does matter.

>>The Sd1 might end up being a fine camera, but don't trick yourself into believing it will be as good as a dslr.<<

That is my main argument. I believe a good camera is a good camera whether it is a DSLR or range finder or LCD monitor screen. It makes no difference how we look at the image. It matter if the camera has a good sensor and good optics and good software. Just because currently the crop of DLSR generally translate to better quality overall doesn't mean that we should continue to think that the DLSR is the finest in camera for AP work.

I still don't believe we need the mirror on the DSLR to have a good camera.
12-06-2007 06:49 PM
 
 
kiwidave1
Veteran
Location: Seattle, WA

PnS will never be as good as DSLRs

End of story.

David

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
12-06-2007 07:21 PM
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BigguyOz
Key Veteran
Location: Sydney, New South Wales, Australia

Dave, never say never.. The reasons that DSLRs are better that P&Ss are lens quality, sensor size & quality, and functions.

If someone were to build a non SLR version, there is absolutely no reason why a compact camera couldn't match the quality of a DSLR.

This is down to marketing... the ability to have a through the lens viewfinder is actually a negative for AP work, and the retractable mirror is just a complication. Similarly, a lot of the functions currently on DSLRs are of no benefit to AP work.

This Sigma seems to represent the vanguard of a camera type more suited to AP, and if the lens provided (or ideally provision for changing lenses) is up to scratch, we should be heading in the right direction.

Tony Stott
Scenefromabove.com.au
Trex 450,AP2000i,Askman
8m mast
hot air balloon
kite
12-06-2007 07:43 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
KC
Elite Veteran
Location: WA

Amen

Seismic, if I gave you a sensor with 1/1oth the area of another sensor and told you to take the same pics with each one, its no contest which will look more like a photo regardless of what glass is in front of it or how good the sensors are.

Fwiw theres only a small IQ difference between lenses like the 18-55 Canon kit and the 24-70L in comparison to the quality between a 8mm wide sensor and a 24mm wide sensor.

Resolving power isnt a matter of the optics alone but also the desired enlargement to be made.

Before I settled into dslrs, I shot with a camera that had 20 square inches of film area (16x of a 35mm or 5d) and a lens from 1943 that was by today's standards a total piece of ****.

In 16x20s with pushed 1600 bw film I could see details such as ducks less than a millimeter large in the print and tell you if they were mallards or drakes. Zero grain and high shutter speed to stop the main subject...this was 4-5 years before digitals could manage 16x20s that didnt look like video games up close.....point is, sensor (or film) size matters!

To get that resolution from a top of the line 35mm would limit one to a 8x10 at best and from a compact digital maybe a 3x5 with isos much slower.

Any old aps-c dslr has a two stop IQ advantage over a typical 1/1.8 or 1/2.5 compact, and dslrs like the 5d have another stop on top of that....if you can lift them, theyre worth the speed advantage.

Another fwiw, the m8 is a totally different beast than a dlux, it will deliver dslr IQ...the sensor in it is the same size as a 1d sensor and the weight is high (2 lbs)
12-06-2007 07:59 PM
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kiwidave1
Veteran
Location: Seattle, WA

lol, that took longer than I expected.

I don't think you are ever going to see PnS as good as SLRs for several reasons.

1. some lens are perfect for some shots and other lens are better of other types of shots. Rather than just looking at the quality of the glass look at WHAT lens works best for the look you are trying to capture.

2. Camera manufactures are never going to let PnS get as good as SLRs cos then they would lose the DSLR market. They aren't going to shot themselves in the foot by creating a PnS that equals in photographic quality to a professional DSLR.

thridly, I think any new technology new to the market for PnS will very rapidly be incorperated into the DSLR form factor, but I also think most new technology is filtering down from the SLR market.

My 2 cents (which i am sure is worth about 1.86AUS by now )

David

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
12-06-2007 08:11 PM
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KC
Elite Veteran
Location: WA

oz, good points, but I know Dave, he's talking about the same compacts him and I have been frustrated by.

to the credit of compacts, much has changed in a short time, but those changes are being applied across the spread so all the cameras are benefitting...right now I can only think of two 'compacts' with dslr sensors...compact meaning non-lens reflex for sake of argument...the rd1 and m8, both expensive and the same weight as a midweight dslr.

To me, the mirror slap problem isnt a 3500-5500.00 problem worth switching to those, over using higher shutter speeds with better high ISOs from newer DSLRs.

anyways, its cool to see a lot of interest in this DP1, it really has all the specs for AP use going for it
12-06-2007 08:13 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
KC
Elite Veteran
Location: WA

ah ya beat me
12-06-2007 08:14 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
kiwidave1
Veteran
Location: Seattle, WA

A mate of mine has the M8, damn sweet camera with mind blowingly sharp but dude, for that price, I could get another Maxi in the air.

Here is his website.

http://www.curtgerstonphotography.com/

Cheers!

David

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
12-06-2007 08:30 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Hogster
Key Veteran
Location: Surrey, UK

I'm surprised there hasn't been more interest on this forum about this camera! Who has had the devil at on their shoulder saying 'you know you want one'?

I'm considering it, but not at the moment. I like the idea of being able to take DSLR-clarity images from my Logo (ie. without needing to haul up a DSLR! ...)

Cheers


David
03-30-2008 02:05 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
pigs dont fly
Key Veteran
Location: ruined UK

I've already convinced the Mrs I need one..lol

Warning...This hobby is very addictive and may damage your wealth
03-30-2008 03:08 AM
 
 
Seablade
Veteran
Location: floating around

if it is reasonably priced I'd get one just to try out the Sigma sensor.
I've had fairly good results with Sigma lenses in the past so I think they will probably put something decent on their little "flagship" camera to attract the masses of PnS's.
Their lenses are not Nikon or Canon quality glass, but their not bad for what they are(as long as you realize what they are )

"Vini, Vidi, Velcro"
03-30-2008 03:35 AM
 
 
Hogster
Key Veteran
Location: Surrey, UK

Anyone tried one of these by now? Am curious how it will perform in the air! It's got all the hallmarks of a good AP camera ... Shutter Priority, wide-angle lens (don't need zoom ... just as well as you can't ), live video out ....

Just wish it were a bit cheaper!

I would love to find one to play with (err, I mean 'test' ) in a shop though, just to see how it feels ... and also to take some sample photos of my own


David
05-02-2008 02:57 AM
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