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Gyro Hobbies . JR-Spektrum . E-flite

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e-HeliDirect Outrage - HDX 300-600 > 6s HDX500SE
 
 
gorn
Elite Veteran
Location: Western Australia

Hi guys
Just wanted to have a chat about what Im doing with my new HDX500SE.Ive been wanting to use 6s on this heli, and after this weekend, the maiden will be done.
Ive used a Hacker A30 12XL and a Revco 18t pinion.
Readyheli calc has headspeed around 3050rpm, Im assuming this is no load.
Im using the lighter white paddles, carbon tail blades, HS82MG's (testing), Hacker, Castle HV45, UBEC 6v, Logitec 2100 and Futaba 9650.
Spectrum AR6000 as well.
Packs I have are a little tired, but they will work fine initially.
Flightpower Evo20 3s 2150, wired in series for 6s 2150.
Pack weight is about 385g as 6s.
Ultimately I will use 6s 3000, most likely Maxamps packs.
Stock main blades for now, but will end up with MAH 425.
So we'll see what happens over the weekend , wish me luck.....

If you bling it, they will come :D
11-23-2007 11:10 AM
 
 
gorn
Elite Veteran
Location: Western Australia

Well it seems no'one is interested.....
So Im not telling how well it went then

If you bling it, they will come :D
11-26-2007 11:18 AM
 
 
Nick Jones
Key Veteran
Location: ....

hey now, i am interested!! HOW DID IT GO?
11-26-2007 11:34 AM
 
 
eheliflyer
Veteran
Location: Shasta Lake, CA

Second that.^^
11-26-2007 05:00 PM
 
 
UAVO
Heliman
Location: Houston, TX - USA

HDX-500SE 6S

I got mine complete during the holidays too. Here is my setup for the 6S1P 2150mA.

- Batteries: two ND Power 2150mA, 20C in series (6S1P 2150mA, 20C)
- Servos: three HXT9320MGBB for CCPM, one Futaba S9250 for tail
- Motor: MT Dragon W35D2 1130Kv (spec only at 3S)
- Gyro: Futaba GY401
- BEC: 5A home built from LT1074 IC
- ESC: Castle Creations Phoenix-80A
- RX: JR PCM 9CH
- TX: JR X347
- Tach: Home built up to 30000RPM
- Temp gun: none
- Collective pitch: +/- 7 degrees
- Wind condition: a little breeze
- Radio setting: beginner
- All stock parts including 24T motor pinion
- Ambient temp: 42'F and cloudy

First time flying: way too strong for a beginner like me. I can hover for less than half of the throttle. Extremely stable, just a little left/right movement when breeze came.

Hovered for 5 mins (up to 20 feet and down around 2 feet) and landed. Not forward yet. GY401/S9250 handled the tail very well. I did not have the temp gun, so I cannot measure the motor temp at the end. However, it was barely touchable. I may have to reconfigure the battery pack for 3S2P to see how it flies. The battery was little warm after the fly.
11-26-2007 06:11 PM
 
 
kva
Heliman
Location: Lithuania

6S with 1100kv motor with 24 pinion!!!!!
It is recommended to use some kind of pinion calculation before flight, or it could be dangerous to you.
11-26-2007 06:35 PM
 
 
michel pet
Heliman
Location: BOVENKARSPEL-NH-NL

6s and 1130 rpm motor

5780rpm will kill you and the helicopter.

MICHEL-CAP
11-26-2007 06:45 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
UAVO
Heliman
Location: Houston, TX - USA

Thanks

Thanks for your advice. Too much RPM for the 6S with 24T pinion. I'll try again with 3S to see how it flies on the weekend. Again, thank you much.
11-26-2007 06:47 PM
 
 
gorn
Elite Veteran
Location: Western Australia

Well.....it had power to burn
Used 270MaH per minute, so about 6.5 minutes of just goofing off, some hard climbs and testing cyclic response.
Im running the longer carbon tail blades, the tail had great power, very quick.
At full pitch the motor doesnt load up at all.
Very stable, yet very responsive too.
Packs come down warm, esc barely woke up, motor was about usual with my experience with Hackers on 6s.
If you use a Hacker, you MUST run a fan, or it will cook.
I had the pitch bellcrank come loose on the 3rd flight, came down pretty quick, got it on the ground quick........and of course proceded to smash the tail blades on the ground.
Sp before I fly again, I will be mounting some spacers underneath the rear of the skids to jack the tail up, and Im also going to get the Dremel out and make new mounting holes for the tail fin, so it sits lower.
Cyclic response was very good, and I can tell you for sure, ITS FAST!


If you bling it, they will come :D
11-28-2007 11:52 AM
 
 
kva
Heliman
Location: Lithuania

This heli might have better response if RPMs are about 3000. However such RPMs are hardcore for 325mm blade helis. For 425mm blade helis such RPMs are not practical at all. You will get not more then 4m30s if you measure your flight time more precisely.

Gorn, what kind of flybar paddles and flybar rod do you use? What vendor tail blades do you use?

There is only one 3D movie of HDX500 heli on all Internet. This flying was done Phil Lennert with completely reengineered heli. Modified center hub, modified mixing arms, modified tail ratio, longer flybar. All guys who touch hdx500 heli complain about cyclic response and tail authority. Maybe those do not complain who just do hovering and FFF. Helidirect confirms that HDX500SA and HDX500SE are suitable only for stable flight and will require upgrades for 3D flight. Sorry but I do not believe in responsiveness of this heli out of the box. Gorn, either you have not completed your testing or you have done some modifications.
11-28-2007 06:48 PM
 
 
gorn
Elite Veteran
Location: Western Australia

Stock flybar, and light white paddles, no other mods really.
68mm carbon tail blades.
After 5 minute flights I put back in 1350mah on all 3 packs, so I think thats pretty accurate.
No I havent finished my flight testing yet.
Phil Lennert will be flying my HDX, as I work part time at the shop he is sponsored by.
More to come later...

If you bling it, they will come :D
11-28-2007 11:29 PM
 
 
kva
Heliman
Location: Lithuania

Quote 
Gorn
Phil Lennert will be flying my HDX, as I work part time at the shop he is sponsored by.

This should explain why you are getting positive results with this heli.

In first flight you need to do tracking and finalize sub trims. It is impossible to measure time in first flight as you need to land several times.
In third flight you had problems and needed to land earlier.
You might have been able to measure the time in second flight if you finished setup until that. However I had never finished setup in 5min first flight as it covers final tuning for gyro gain, expos, throttle pitch curves and other things.
However I do not believe in 6min flight with 3000RPM.

Seriously guys, I am not working in any hobby shop and I am not sponsored by any of them. I have invested in this heli and required avionics over 900usd and had not got any satisfying flight with it until now. Customers do not need to be misguided with this heli as it is not for free.

Heli has problems with cyclic response and tail authority and vendor needs to address those issues. Until now no proven work around is offered in any HDX shop.
11-29-2007 09:49 AM
 
 
gorn
Elite Veteran
Location: Western Australia

Helidirect has started releasing speed up gears for the tail, problem solved there.
I have the longer 68mm carbon tail blades, and at the speed Im running them, the tail feels very powerful, BUT I havent had time to push it yet.
So far Phil has had no input on my personal heli, and I have not had a good look over his either.
The test of mine will just be to see what 6s is like for this heli, and so far Im very happy.
Im no mad 3d pilot, but Phil is lol, and I cant wait to see what it goes like.
Perhaps I will be disappointed, perhaps not, that remains to be seen.
New mixing levers are due for release very shortly, giving more pitch.
As for cyclic, everyone knows that the flybar cage hits the blade grips, I dont know what, if anything, will be done to fix that and allow more cyclic.
Try the light white paddles, there is quite a difference in response IMO.
First flight: tracking was perfect (no really), no vibrations, tail had a slow wag that I couldnt get rid of.
Turned out to be a setting on the Logictec gyro I had wrong. This was sorted out before the second flight.
Second flight: just hovering and hard climbs, getting a feel for it and how well the tail may hold. This is my first time with a Logictec gyro, so it was all new to me.
Flew till timer went off on my TX.
Third flight ended at 4.30....
Changes I will make as and when things are released: upgrade mixing levers, tail speed up gear if I feel I need it for my flying style, carbon main blades, as the glass ones do flex quite a bit.
I have some tweaking of the head linkages to do, maybe 15 mins worth to have it fully dialled in. The slipping elevator lever has been fixed, new tail blades are on, spacers placed between the rear landing skids and the chassis to jack the tail up higher from the ground, redrill mounting holes on tail fin so it touches down well before the tail blades.
I'll keep the post updated as things happen

If you bling it, they will come :D
11-29-2007 11:44 AM
 
 
UAVO
Heliman
Location: Houston, TX - USA

KVA,

I agreed with you about this heli that lacks tail authority and slow cyclic response, but that is only truth if you use 3S pack (I meant 11.1V Lipo). I used two trex bats 3S 2150mA, and I had to add tail control all the time during hovering. However, I am just a beginner, so I set my radio with throttle at 0 70 85 85 100 for using 3S2P. I used MT motor with 1130KV, and I can hardly get to 2900 RPM during hovering.

For 6S pack (two 3S 2150mA in series), the HDX is a rock solid in hover with hand off from 6 feet and above with no wind. It had too much juice for the motor and I had to set my radio throttle to 0 40 60 60 70. I can get to 3000 RPM easily with a 6S pack. Tail is locked. I've never tried my HDX-500SE for FFF since my back yard is not big enough. Theoretically, I can because 1130KV * 11.1V ~ 12543, and gear ratio at 94 / 24 = 3.9167. Therefore, I should get 12543 / 3.9167 ~ 3202 at 100% of throttle, but the load caused this slow down quite a bit to less than 2900RPM.

So far, I am please with this heli using 6S pack and fan on the motor. Airframe was built with all stock parts.
11-29-2007 04:53 PM
 
 
kva
Heliman
Location: Lithuania

Gorn, good to hear you so believe in the future of this heli. Hopefully you and Phil or other guys will make this heli to fly and you propose upgrades for others. Better those upgrades be released sooner otherwise I will be unable to wait for them.

UAVO, I am really happy you have found good setup for you to hover your heli in your back yard.
11-29-2007 06:29 PM
 
 
eheliflyer
Veteran
Location: Shasta Lake, CA

...
11-30-2007 05:50 PM
 
 
gorn
Elite Veteran
Location: Western Australia

Oky dokly
Today I picked up the new tail speed up gear, new head block (not sure if there is actually much change here, but I will post what I find), new seesaw (same thoughts as head block), new washout levers and new mixing levers.
As I said, Im not sure of the physical differences yet in the new headblock and seesaw, as I havent sat down with them side by side for a close look and measurements yet.
From what I am told, pitch will be about +11 -11, the aim of the new stuff is more cyclic authority.
I dont really need this stuff, as Im no stick banger yet, but Im trying lol
I will post my findings as I find time to test through the week.
Watch this space.......

If you bling it, they will come :D
12-01-2007 08:31 AM
 
 
gorn
Elite Veteran
Location: Western Australia

Oh yeah...
Isnt it interesting that now Flightpower and Polyquest have 6s 2500 packs listed
Futureproofing a product line for a new wave of helis perhaps?
Bring on the 500 class

If you bling it, they will come :D
12-01-2007 08:34 AM
 
 
eheliflyer
Veteran
Location: Shasta Lake, CA

That is killer news. I believe the 500 class is the next craze!
12-02-2007 08:25 PM
 
 
UAVO
Heliman
Location: Houston, TX - USA

Great flying HDX-500SE with modified stuffs.

Guys,

I notice some kind of wobble in the belt guiders. I took them apart, and I realized that there was only one bearing in each of them. I removed the ball bearing and found that the Trex’s tail bearing has the same inner and outer diameter but smaller in thickness. I used two Trex tail bearing in each belt guider with a small washer on the bottom, and now there are rocked.

I replaced my 6S1P 22C DN Power batteries with 3S2P 25C DN Power batteries, and I tried to circuit around the flying field. With the new 70mm (came with the kit) tail blade set, HDX-500SE flies very stable. As many other mentioned before that the cyclic is very slow to compare with Trex 450, but it is great for sport flier like me.

So far, I had done these things to my HDX-500SE to be able to fly well in my opinion.
- Replace all 30mm cyclic link with 35mm.
- Replace a ball bearing in the belt guider with two Trex’s tail bearings
- Sanded one of the main blades down (to the carbon layder) to fit it in the main blade holder.
- Sand both tail blades to fit them in the tail blade holders.
- Made a longer tail fin to avoid the 70mm tail blade touching the ground.
12-03-2007 03:27 PM
 
 
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e-HeliDirect Outrage - HDX 300-600 > 6s HDX500SE
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