RunRyder - Trex 450 multi blade build

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Scale Model RC Helicopters > Trex 450 multi blade build

seattle_helo
Veteran
Location: Washington State, USA

Looking for ideas on how I might solve a problem with my five blade head on a Trex 450. To keep the pushrods vertical and parallel to the main shaft does not leave enough room for the follower to operate without fouling the pushrod closest to it. I'd rather not rotate the swash to make room, but even when I do, it's still not enough space to operate without fouling at moderate to extreme swash positions.

I'm about to start the process of making a miniature follower like one from Vario, but it will be quite a project. So, I'm curious if anyone else has some ideas before I go down that road. Does anyone know what the MS Composit AS350 uses for a follower?

nick

11-08-2007 12:12 AM

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Super-Hornet
Senior Heliman
Location: Singapore

I does not really matter whether your linkages is straight or not. So long as u have 90degree phasing will do.

BTW, nice looking 5 bladed head. From whom? Deetee?

SH

11-08-2007 01:13 AM

Hoverup
Elite Veteran
Location: Gulf Coast

Super Hornet is right. However if you still have issues or questions contact Dennis at DeeTeeEnterprises and he can put you in touch with the gent that invented and manufactured your 5 blade head system.

Cheers - Boyd
AMA80393
Major USAF
Retired

11-08-2007 01:33 AM

slider46
rrProfessor
Location: Gloversville, NY

I would like to know where you got the head from too...

Tom..... No "D" flying....

11-08-2007 01:35 AM

seattle_helo
Veteran
Location: Washington State, USA

@slider46- This head is from DeeTee. Here's a link to the specific page:

http://http://deeteeenterprises.com...Index.Scale.php

@Boyd- I've been in contact with Lawrence about this. I have not heard the final word from him but I suspect that I'm going to have to make my own follower since this one which comes with the system is not exactly what I'd like. If you already have one of these heads than you know it's just a modified pitch compensator with an offset arm. It works fine with the three and four blade heads, but the five blade head just does not leave enough room.

@SH- I know mechanically I can have the pushrods at a reasonable angle, but I'd like to keep mine totally straight. I like the way it looks and I'll do my phasing electronically. How did you solve the follower issue with your setups? Did you create a follower from scratch or are you using modified parts similar to this?

nick

11-08-2007 03:42 AM

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Super-Hornet
Senior Heliman
Location: Singapore

For 2 blades, using the washout as swash plate follower is easy. As what u encounter also, the more blades u have, the more cramp it is. So the usual washout method will not work well. Furthermore, as more blades u have, the more counter torque it has and thus a single linkage to lock the swash plate is not going to hold well.

I build my own swash plate follower from scratch.

And it is not entirely from TRex parts...but still parts that u can get from any hobby shops.

SH

11-08-2007 03:58 AM

seattle_helo
Veteran
Location: Washington State, USA

Thanks for those tips, SH. I'll try to make it as robust as possible and yet keep it small!

11-08-2007 04:17 AM

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Jesus nut
Senior Heliman
Location: Cairns Australia

What would happen if you flipped the blade holders over and made them lead instead of lagg. Transfering the rod to the next arm and reposition the follower to get the correct angle.The swash will then need to lower to increase pitch instead of raise.
Just an idea don't know if it is possible.Can you flip the offset arm of the follower around?
Colin.

11-08-2007 01:34 PM

seattle_helo
Veteran
Location: Washington State, USA

Colin, thanks for that idea- a friend of mine suggested the same thing last night. I have tried flipping the grips but it's still too tight of a fit with the way this follower is implemented. It nearly makes no difference. With the pivot arm way over to the side like it is, there is not enough room.

I think I'm going to have to make a custom part for this application.

11-09-2007 05:57 AM

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Jack Martin
Senior Heliman
Location: AKA HeliJack, Washougal, WA

Nick,
Chris and I worked that problem over at the Sept Brooks and had the issue resolved, but now I cannot remember exactly how Chris got that to work without any binding. Of course your idea for a new one is fine too, just work and time which you don't have much time to spare. Never did hear from Lawrence how it flew, it was too windy when we got it fixed.
Jack

Remember our Veterans.

11-09-2007 11:56 AM

seattle_helo
Veteran
Location: Washington State, USA

Jack, thanks man. Yeah, it was Chris who was telling me about what you guys did and it's basically the same idea that Colin came up with. For some reason when I try it, the pushrod is still too close to comfort in my book. Certain cyclic and pitch combos totally bind it and even certain slight combos make them touch. I'm not comfortable with that so I'm not going to even try flying it setup that way.

I am going to try the fabrication route and make one that is nice and centered. But you're right, it is going to take time...

11-09-2007 05:38 PM

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leider
Heliman
Location: I'm in Heaven... :-)

seattle_helo nice all metal head !

Where did the blade grips came from, is that the only part you change to the original deetee head?

I'm using an helimixer with two Logictech 2100T in a Century 5 blade set-up, they do a good reliable job. Think they can save something like 32 grams over a GY401 configuration, something to think about as it can become a good help in a 450 class heli conversion.

Daniel

Life is wonderful !

11-10-2007 12:48 PM

lrogers
Key Veteran
Location: Mobile, Al

That new H500E from Align would look awesome under that 5 blade head!

Larry Rogers - Rotorwing-Pilot 2nd class

11-10-2007 02:11 PM

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seattle_helo
Veteran
Location: Washington State, USA

Daniel, the blade grips are from Align. I couldn't resist putting them on there!

And thanks for the tip on the weight savings. I've gotta say, I actually add weight to my Trex 450's only because I like the way they handle better being on the heavy side! The 3D guys would be shocked at my setups...

Larry, I'm going to do exactly that once I have this thing flying well! Hopefully this head will make for a nice little scale machine.

nick

11-13-2007 05:47 AM

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RESQMAN911
Heliman
Location: Canton, GA

Sorry guys this question is off topic, I have been flying for about a year and know nothing about scale, why do you need a gyro on the aileron and elevator?

12-06-2007 01:37 AM

seattle_helo
Veteran
Location: Washington State, USA

Well, I've had the original DeeTee follower on this head for a while now. I never did get around to making one myself or having one made. It was suggested to me (a few times) that instead of making one from scratch that I should look at the followers from the Lightning Heli heads. So I finally did and made up this hybrid combo. The follower is pretty nice, complete with ball bearings on each pivot and well made components. It does have a little slop, but it's less than using the modified Align parts and the price is certainly right. I modified it slightly by removing one of the spacer washers from each pivot to help eliminate a bit of the slop as well as changing out the ball link to one from Align.

RESQMAN911, the gyro's on ELEV and AILE are not absolutely necessary, but they do help to make the helicopter much more stable. Without a flybar and with direct swash to blade grip links, these little multi's can be a real handful. Weighting the blades the right way (near the tips and at the leading edge) can also help with stability quite a bit which can decrease or even eliminate the need for any head gyro's. This whole thing has been a big experiment for me from the get go. I'm not putting it into any kind of fuse until I find a combo that flies much like a flybared 450. It's getting there slowly. There is a ton of info on head gyros here and elsewhere if you want to learn more about them.

nick

05-05-2008 06:27 AM

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Super-Hornet
Senior Heliman
Location: Singapore

There is one thing that I worried about is that your cyclic gyros (especially the Elevator GY401) might be too close to the motor.

I find that GY401 is very sensitive to EMF generated by the motor and ESC. If this happen, it might cause some unwanted cyclic correction movement to your heli.

To test it, power up your heli...and during the time your ESC beeping with the initialization tune, pay attention to the cyclic servos. If it does twitch on each time the motor sound, then your gyro is too close to the motor.

SH

05-06-2008 01:19 AM

seattle_helo
Veteran
Location: Washington State, USA

SH, I had not thought of that possibility. So far it has been fine but just now I powered it up and payed close attention- luckily the cyclic servos stayed still. Thank you for bringing that to my attention.

nick

05-06-2008 06:19 AM

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seattle_helo
Veteran
Location: Washington State, USA

Had a chance to do some major testing today and this thing is flying very nice. The follower is totally locked in and I think it made a difference. With the other one it felt like the phasing was slightly off while in the air- even though it passed the over-the-boom test on the workbench. I think it may have been due to flex of the plastic arm. It was also so cramped in between the pushrods that it nearly always bound a little- which was a scary situation...

Looks like I'll finally be putting this into a 500E fuse now.

nick

05-10-2008 07:26 PM

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Scale Model RC Helicopters > Trex 450 multi blade build

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