RunRyder - Eco 8 Pitch Setup

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e-Ikarus Piccolo-Eco 8/16 > Eco 8 Pitch Setup

sparkspyro
Heliman
Location: illinois

Hi everyone,

New to the fourms, but not to flying. Had an eco 8 years ago and recently found some of my old parts and decided to build another. Using all stock parts with the exception of tailboom servo mount and auto main gear. Current setup is for 90 ccpm, running a great plains ammo 36-50-1500/18tooth, 6 cell lipo at 8400ma and heading lock gyro.

On power up am getting the spin which cant be corrected by the tail rotar. That leads me to belive that the pitch isnt correct on the main blades, think I might have too much byte and tail dosent have the power to respond.

I built the linkage per manual spec spacing for the rods and so forth, but are they that off in the manual? I can see positive pitch in the neutral position.

Can someone tell me what the pitch setup is supposed to be as its lacking in the manual I have. I attached a photo for reference.

Thanks in advance.

10-17-2007 02:55 AM

Greybird
Veteran
Location: Davie, Florida

Is you ESC on soft start?

10-17-2007 11:33 AM

sparkspyro
Heliman
Location: illinois

Am using a Team Orion Avionics Captain 45A ESC. I dont beleive that it has a soft start mode. Its not jerky when it starts, but as soon as I start adding throttle/pitch and it is light on the skids it starts to spin. If I add tail rotar to full pitch, is slows the spin but is still unflyable.

The only thing that I can think of is that there is too much pitch on the main blades from the start and as soon as I add power/pitch the main blades might be digging in so hard that the tail rotars rpms are not enough to compensate.

10-17-2007 05:52 PM

xxcysxx
Senior Heliman
Location: Baltimore, USA

...

Tam

10-17-2007 08:39 PM

mjdee14
Senior Heliman
Location: Nashville , TN

Show a close up pic of the tail rotor...

Do you have the balls on the leading edge of the blades, spinning CC when looking at it?

Do you also have full travel available on the tail rotor....if so it should hold provided the servo and gyro are set up correctly.

It doesn't sound right that you have too much "bite"...once up to rotor speed i can give full up pitch and the tail holds..

Something is not set up right....no revo in radio correct?

Show us the tail and lets se what we can figure out...

Also, do you have big enough servo arm on tail servo to get good travel?

Mike... Blade CP, HBCP2, Revo w/belt drive, Zoom 400, Eco 8, Hurricane 550, DX7 2.4

10-18-2007 03:47 AM

sparkspyro
Heliman
Location: illinois

Thanks for your responce mjdee14,

Thats all setup correctly. I have full range along the shaft in both directions and the radio is setup correctly as is the gyro.

When the heil is in the neutral position, what is the pitch of your blades? I understand that at a full pitch the tail is able to hold however if my pitch at neutral is +4 degrees and I increase throttle/pitch to a hover state, my pitch would jump to maybe 10+ degrees and traverse lets say up to a max of 20. I think thats where the problem is. I built the linkage per size in the manual however I can see a positive pitch in the main blades at neutral, you think that the manual would have the pitch correctly / roughly setup. It dosent say what it should be at that state.

It reacts like there is too much byte, not enough throttle and is able to get off the ground from the main blades due to the torque of the motor, but the rmps in comparison to the tail speed is not enough to conter effect the rotation. I think the solution is the pitch of the main blades need to be decreased so the rmps can increase but I dont know what they should be set at.

So if you can tell me what your pitch is setup at the neutral position I can compare with the way its currently setup and hopefully solve the problem.

Thanks.

10-18-2007 05:44 AM

mjdee14
Senior Heliman
Location: Nashville , TN

I have my pitch at midstick set at Zero....3/4 stick about 6 deg and max stick at 9 deg....thats about all I can get out of it without binding.

I currently have them metal head, but flew it about the same with the nylon head. Norm throttle is about 0, 20, 80, 90, 100.

Some people set up to hover at midstick, some at 3/4...I think the 3/4 works best for me, then in idle up I have 6 deg neg pitch at 1/4 stick....so it would be -9, -6, 0, +6, +9 pitch, throt idle 1 is
95, 90, 85, 90, 95.

make sure you have the proper tail pulley on te front...there are 3 and maybe you have too low an rpm for the head speed.

Gotta run to work now, but I can take measurements of the linkages, etc later if you need them.

Mike

Mike... Blade CP, HBCP2, Revo w/belt drive, Zoom 400, Eco 8, Hurricane 550, DX7 2.4

10-18-2007 01:08 PM

sparkspyro
Heliman
Location: illinois

Great thats what I needed!

That is where the problem is. At mid stick i can see an excessive amount of positive pitch and your at 0. So obviously not enough rotar speed and way too much pitch.

Yeah do me a favor and let me know the lengths of your linkage on the head, I would be curious to see what they are set for. The manual states 93mm and 54mm. I just cant beleive that its that far off by the manual. Will have to pull out the pitch guage and see exactly where its at, but I will try your mid stick at 0 and see how she responds. Would have been much easier if the manual had info about pitch at various states for setup.

One thing that Im curious about, if your at a -9 in neutral, when you throttle down or up, does it not push the heli into the ground at a certain state? My other smaller helis are -1 to +8 and fly like a charm.

My frist eco 8 was purchased from a local hobby store which was a personal aircraft of there heli guy. So it was allready setup and tricked out. Made things a lot easier.

10-18-2007 09:31 PM

mjdee14
Senior Heliman
Location: Nashville , TN

Sparkspyro....

Your right...in Normal mode I have zero at midstick, and -2 to -1 at anything below midstick...so I don't screw it into the ground when coming down. the -9 -6 0 +6 +9 is only in Idle up 1, 2 and throttle hold.

In fact once I set the pitch on the bench, I then take out to the yard and hover it....mechanically set the tail servo, then i reduce the negative pitch in Normal to what "Feels right"..if it drops like a rock. I give it less neg pitch. I love the new DX7 radio, it's like the JR it shows you "graphs" so you can see excatly what your doing with pitch and throttle.

So basically in Normal from low stick to mid I only have a couple of deg of neg pitch.

My rod lengths are 97 mm from the swash to the blade mixing arm...they call for 93 mm pg 12....and 53 mm from the y arms to the paddle rod arms...they call for 54.5 mm...but I alreay have the dogleg bend they mention on pg 11. both arms are measured as they do from tip to tip of the rod end.

get the headspeed up at mid stick at zero deg....you should have full control of the tail....and hopefully at 3/4 stick the tail will stilll have full control.

One other thing that has helped me is after I get it trimmed out in normal, I switch between 1, 2, and hold, (motor disconnected)(learned that the hard way!) and correct the trims so there is no movement of the servos on any axis between all the modes, that way when I hover in normal and then hit idle 1 there are no "surprises".

I'm still in the circuits and easy flying stage..no 3D...so actually Idle up 1 could have the same pitch settings as Normal -2 -1 0 +6 +9 and it would fly fine...just use the -9 to +9 in Idle 2 and Hold...

I have never needed -9 pitch yet..Hope that helps....

let me know if you need any more measurements.

Mike

Mike... Blade CP, HBCP2, Revo w/belt drive, Zoom 400, Eco 8, Hurricane 550, DX7 2.4

10-19-2007 03:41 AM

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e-Ikarus Piccolo-Eco 8/16 > Eco 8 Pitch Setup

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