RunRyder - Trev Burley - CSM Flybarless Trex 600e

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Flybarless Rotor Head Systems > Trev Burley - CSM Flybarless Trex 600e

trvo
Veteran
Location: Bognor Regis,UK, Aurorra Ltd

Hi Guys,

Here's a vid of me taking the rex 600e for a spin:

http://www.rcheli-vids.com/rcheli/f...rt=true&fs=true

My setup:
Heli: Align Trex 600 electric
Motor: zPower z30a 1110kv on 16T pinion
Esc: Castle Creations HV110
Lipo: Revolution 6s 4800
Servos: 9252
Flybarless: CSM 720's and Cyclock
Tail Gyro: CSM 720
Tail Servo: JR 8900
Rx: AR9000
Rx Power: FMA Powerforce with Kokam rx pack
Gov: eMultigov
Blades: Radix 600
Tail Blades: NHP 95
Nigel Fraser Ker dampners

Enjoy - Trev

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Trex 600e
Trex 600n
Aurorra Ltd, Align UK, Align Factory, CSM, Quick UK, Heli-Lessons

10-02-2007 05:48 PM

HOMEPAGE

Olivier31
Senior Heliman
Location: Toulouse-France

Hi,

great flight! What can you say about the feeling between the flybar and the flybarless version of the 600E? And the auto's? Are they so good?

Olivier

10-03-2007 07:31 AM

trvo
Veteran
Location: Bognor Regis,UK, Aurorra Ltd

Thanks

There are positives and negatives to both. The flybarless cannot do a stationary pirouette so well and is a lot harder to chaos, generally it struggles with pirouetting manouevres. Colin is working on this however and has a plan of action.

Other than that, the flybarless feels much more precise and locked in, autos are a LOT easier, however, you have to be careful not to bump the heli on the ground as that can confuse the gyros which will tip it over.

Flybarless is something that anyone can fly, it is in no way difficult or easy. My particular setup is set to emulate flybarred flight as I didn't know what else to aim for and average club flyer level pilots have flown mine with no problem.

That may sound like a lot of bad things, but the feel of flybarless is enough to convince me to convert the 600n too. The gyros are on order so shouldn't be long now.

Trev

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Trex 600e
Trex 600n
Aurorra Ltd, Align UK, Align Factory, CSM, Quick UK, Heli-Lessons

10-03-2007 07:52 AM

HOMEPAGE

Olivier31
Senior Heliman
Location: Toulouse-France

Thank you for your explanations

. Really interesting subject.

Olivier

10-03-2007 08:01 AM

trvo
Veteran
Location: Bognor Regis,UK, Aurorra Ltd

no problem

Trev

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Trex 600e
Trex 600n
Aurorra Ltd, Align UK, Align Factory, CSM, Quick UK, Heli-Lessons

10-03-2007 08:03 AM

HOMEPAGE

Esprit Model
Heliman
Location: Palm Bay, FL

I would imagine if you could put two accelerometers inline with the cyclic gyros, your piros and chaos would clear up...

10-04-2007 10:18 PM

trvo
Veteran
Location: Bognor Regis,UK, Aurorra Ltd

Quote
I would imagine if you could put two accelerometers inline with the cyclic gyros, your piros and chaos would clear up...

Unfortunately it isn't that kind of solution, the problem is feel of the heli which can easily be changed, but you need to 'find' that sweet spot first, that's the chaos problem.

The stationary piros have a simple fix in that the gyros need to talk to each other and recognise a pirouette. At the moment they don't see this movement so it 'wobbles'.

Trev

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Trex 600e
Trex 600n
Aurorra Ltd, Align UK, Align Factory, CSM, Quick UK, Heli-Lessons

10-05-2007 11:09 AM

HOMEPAGE

LoopZilla
Heliman
Location: Melbourne, FL

It is my understanding that the speed of the correction to the cyclic feedback is what causes the 'feel' to be different in flybarless heads. Obviously, this is more evident during fast yaw movements.

Let's say you are hovering, and give a large aileron input. All looks and feels fine because the aileron sensor has stayed in one plane of reference. Even if the calculations to construct the feedback are slow, there really isn't much going on to display it. The roll may just exit different, but it isn't that apparent.

However, if you mix in wild yaw with the aileron, the delay in the electronic response will cause correction based on where the heli was - not where the heli is. At least where aileron is concerned...

Mix in some elevator, and the task becomes almost impossible.

So, to fix it, you normally use an inertial sensor (gyro + embedded hardware accelerometer), which doesn't rely on a processor to calculate the change in angular rate. This idea leads to more of a 'proactive' correction, rather than a 'reactive'.

Please correct me if this is off base.

LoopZilla

10-05-2007 02:37 PM

HOMEPAGE

trvo
Veteran
Location: Bognor Regis,UK, Aurorra Ltd

Quote
Please correct me if this is off base.

Sounds like a more technical way of putting what I told Colin last weekend

.

Trev

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Trex 600e
Trex 600n
Aurorra Ltd, Align UK, Align Factory, CSM, Quick UK, Heli-Lessons

10-05-2007 02:42 PM

HOMEPAGE

Esprit Model
Heliman
Location: Palm Bay, FL

LOL -

If there is a simple way, please let me know. That was a lot of typing...

10-05-2007 03:28 PM

Royrex
Senior Heliman
Location: TN USA

What would mixing rudder travel to cyclic gyro gain do?
More rudder = more or less gyro gain.
Just a thought.

10-10-2007 04:38 AM

trvo
Veteran
Location: Bognor Regis,UK, Aurorra Ltd

It would cause instability in the machine in a fast piro wall of death or loop etc. Theory works for stationary pirouetting moves however.

Trev

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Trex 600e
Trex 600n
Aurorra Ltd, Align UK, Align Factory, CSM, Quick UK, Heli-Lessons

10-10-2007 08:01 AM

HOMEPAGE

bathmagic
Senior Heliman
Location: Berwick,Victoria, Australia

vbar

are these issues aparent in the Mikado version also ?

3DMP , Vbar 600 "Innovation" The key to success !

10-11-2007 12:50 PM

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ulrich
Heliman
Location: Hanau, Hessen - Deutschland

No they are not. Since V 3.6 of the Firmware this effect can be corrected so you get clean piruettes without wobbling, even in windy conditions or in FFF while piruetting! Belive me, it was hard work to find out how to do this

Keep in mind, that VBar is not 3 Gyros put together, they *are* actually communication to each other.

10-11-2007 01:01 PM

HOMEPAGE

trvo
Veteran
Location: Bognor Regis,UK, Aurorra Ltd

Quote
No they are not. Since V 3.6 of the Firmware this effect can be corrected so you get clean piruettes without wobbling, even in windy conditions or in FFF while piruetting! Belive me, it was hard work to find out how to do this Keep in mind, that VBar is not 3 Gyros put together, they are actually communication to each other.

Yep, Adam Turner's is rock solid in the piro...

Trev

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Trex 600e
Trex 600n
Aurorra Ltd, Align UK, Align Factory, CSM, Quick UK, Heli-Lessons

10-11-2007 01:38 PM

HOMEPAGE

J2M
Senior Heliman
Location: UK

[quote]Since V 3.6 of the Firmware this effect can be corrected [quote]

Is this a menu option that you have to activate or is it a default feature of the V3.6 software?

10-11-2007 05:32 PM

Heliplanet.de
Senior Heliman
Location: Aidlingen, near Stuttgart, Germany

It is a default feature.

Activate the expert mode and switch to the last folder.

For more explanations see the VStabi wiki here:

(The screen is from a upcoming version, but it is the same)

http://vstabi.de/wiki/index.php?title=Menu_rudder

Pirouette Optimization

Electric Scale - Vario & flybarless V-Bar - Mikado

10-11-2007 07:05 PM

HOMEPAGE

J2M
Senior Heliman
Location: UK

Thank you for the explanation!

10-11-2007 08:54 PM

Alexander01
Senior Heliman
Location: Sweden

Great flight Trev!

Go Team QuickUK!!

QuickUK Team Pilot SAB Team Pilot

10-12-2007 11:33 AM

trvo
Veteran
Location: Bognor Regis,UK, Aurorra Ltd

Thanks

Trev

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Trex 600e
Trex 600n
Aurorra Ltd, Align UK, Align Factory, CSM, Quick UK, Heli-Lessons

10-12-2007 11:35 AM