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Advantage Hobby . Revolution Models . CarbonXtreme

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Bergen R/C Helicopters > Bergen Intrepid Gasser review in August 2007 MHW
 
 
gigi
Veteran
Location: Port-au-Prince, Haiti

I have read at least 40 issues of MHW, and have never enjoyed an article as much as I did the one about the UK version of the Bergen Gasser in the August 2007 issue.

I was looking forward to the article because THE worst blunder I've ever made in my modeling life was buying a used Bergen Gasser. In my defense, I was led to believe the Bergen was a trouble-free, high-end machine. I'll chalk that one up to not enough research on the subject.

FINALLY, I feel I can forgive myself for having bought that machine! I just didn't know any better In a "misery loves company" kind of way, I am glad to see I am not the only one who has cracking fan shrouds, gears that don't line up without shims, holes that need to be converted to slots, and other "real builder's model" quirks. The reviewer found the build "irritating and frustrating". Personally, I hate wrenching on the machine enough that it has sat for roughtly 16 of the previous 24 months. Or is it 24 of the previous 36? This would be the case whether it was purchased new or used, as I have already replaced any and all parts that were out of specifications, mostly bearings which are too small, as is the case for most of the fasteners on the machine.

Of course, everything is a compromise, but the cramped area for the electronics doesn't help. There is push-rod interference at full negative pitch (maybe it's my fault, but I doubt it). The "beefy" clutch would be perfect for a glow motor which turns an additional 5,000 rpm. Even the tail rotor pitch control system is questionable, at least as compared to those on real high-end machines like a Vigor CS. I won't even go into the price of parts for this gem of a helicopter. Suffice to say, I hope to never buy another part for it again. It's a good thing I have a stash of them.

In a bizarre way, having read the article and fully accepted the fact that I have wasted over $3,500 over time on this machine and its miscellaneous parts, I am now ready to give it another try. My bottle of red Loctite is ready! And one day, I swear I'll find a way to get rid of it, even if that means having a bonfire or watching it fly into the sunset at the beach.

In the meantime, I am officially annointing myself President of the Bergen Haters Club, unless someone else already has the job.

Gigi

My heli spending has gone way down since I got a Honda 919 :-)
08-26-2007 06:21 PM
 
 
helicrack
Senior Heliman
Location: Laporte, Indiana

Ouch. Quite a searing review. Maybe the key word was "used"? Somebody else's abused heli perhaps? Either way, my buddy and I have found Bergen to be a class-act product.

As we speak, the Bergen crew are attending their anual funfly and assured they are making some happy customers. We were not able to attend this year because of prior obligations but so wish we could be there.

Sorry to hear about your troubles.

Silky smooth assembly and flying IMO.

".........said the joker to the thief"
08-26-2007 06:36 PM
 
 
DenisS
Veteran
Location: Essex, UK

I had the pleasure of flying that actual machine a couple of months ago- I think that when you eventually get it flying you will love it! I understand your frustrations over the rebuild ( I just bought two second-hand "perfect" helis, both needed rebuilding due to bent mainshafts, tails shafts and feathering spindles) but often there are some things needed on new helicopters too.
Good luck with it
Denis

Crash 'n Lurn
08-27-2007 09:36 AM
 
 
w8qz
Veteran
Location: Walker, MI - USA

What gigi is complaining about doesn't sound to me like problems due to abuse or wrong assmembly; it sounds like problems with the *basic design*. The first is (relatively) easy to fix; the second requires 're-engineering' to correct. There's a big difference between the two.


Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups.
08-27-2007 01:06 PM
 
 
4 stroke flyer
Heliman
Location: Dowagiac,MI

I have owned every model bergen makes except the turbine and have had nothing but good machines. I loved my gasser and never had any of the problems you speak of. I have bought new and used. I curently fly a bergen fourstroke and love it. As for the price of the parts these are not made in china or taiwan they are made in the USA. I will gladly pay a little more to get stuff made here at home! You should call bergen and they will help you get your problems solved.
08-28-2007 11:13 AM
 
 
gigi
Veteran
Location: Port-au-Prince, Haiti

"My" Bergen Gasser

Thanks for the tips. I actually enjoy flying my Bergen when it is willing to do so. It does track like it's on rail, and it's definitely impressive when banking at high speed. I like that part.

Unfortunately it's a fact that the machine has not lived up to my expectations, and knowing what I know now after the review, I would never purchase another one. I'm not saying they're bad machines. I am saying they're the wrong machines for me. I wish to sell mine someday, hopefully to someone who will enjoy fiddling with it.

Thanks,

Gigi

My heli spending has gone way down since I got a Honda 919 :-)
08-29-2007 11:01 PM
 
 
raptor lee
Heliman
Location: Walker, MN U.S.A.

Gigi, as you already know, I agree with you 100%. Yes, mine too flies like it is on rails, but that means just flying back and forth and certainly no 3d. It is a dinosaur and requires constant attention. Bergens instruction manual is as outdated as their design. Very sloppy craftsmanship. The only reason their service is so good is because it has to be: due to all the phone calls necessary to complete the build. Need parts? Can only get them from Bergen and they have you by the gonads when it comes to price. As for president of the Bergen haters club, let's just say I'll share the title with you. Happy flying.
08-30-2007 04:33 PM
 
 
jschenck
Elite Veteran
Location: La Vista, NE.

So, curious - if your wallet had a big red undo button on it which gasser would you buy?

...yep...
08-30-2007 06:00 PM
 
 
gullie667
Veteran
Location: Raleigh, NC

I don't know alot about Bergen but know enough that I would NEVER buy one due to part cost.

They are also heavy and don't fit my flying style (hard 3d)

I friend of mine w/ deep pockets loved his though.

Helicopters - 1000 parts flying in formation.
08-30-2007 07:30 PM
 
 
Rusty
Heliman
Location: Chula Vista, CA

Hey Gigi,

If you're having problems getting that Bergen going, I highly suggest you drop Warren a pm here on Runryder.

I've seen folks about ready to trash their gasser heli's after getting all the 'expert' advice here on RR get set right and walk away happy campers.

It may be tough being so far away but I bet he can get that thing running smooth for you.

Take care.

Rusty
08-30-2007 10:47 PM
 
 
gigi
Veteran
Location: Port-au-Prince, Haiti

Getting help...

Thanks for the tip, rusty. Someone else had PM'ed me Warren's info, and he has sent me some great information. I haven't been able to make use of it yet, because the heli is (surprise!) sitting disassembled on my workbench. But I will give it another go, now that I have a bottle of red Loctite (evil grin) and that the review in MHW has somehow made me accept the humongousness of my blunder when I purchased that POS.

As for Bergen prices, I'll share with everyone THE single part that converted me from client to BHC President (with Raptor Lee ) To Wit, the infamous Bergen fan shroud, which was $35 or $39 dollars back when I bought one to replace the one which was on the machine and which had cracked. Well, a quick look at the cost today, and it has gone up to $42.95. Plus shipping & handling. AND IT WILL CRACK AGAIN SOONER RATHER THAN LATER! All kidding aside, that particular part, fine yellow plastic aside, is not worth 10% of what Bergen charges for it! It looks like it could have come out of an amusement park injection molding machine like the ones that makes small monkeys for kids. What a joke.

Of course, for those who don't mind having a "high-end" heli, and who enjoy toying with itsy-bitsy fasteners, I'm sure they're a great way to while time away.

If I could do it all over again, I would have bought a Predator Gasser Carbon.

Gigi

My heli spending has gone way down since I got a Honda 919 :-)
08-30-2007 11:16 PM
 
 
raptor lee
Heliman
Location: Walker, MN U.S.A.

Gigi, here's a few examples of Bergen prices: 401 gyro w/9254 - $275.00. Heliproz price for the exact same combo is $189.99. Rubber canopy grommets (4 of them) are approximately $6.00 from Bergen, plus a couple dollars for handling. The local Ace Hardware store sells the identical grommets for $.20 each. Champion spark plugs (RZ7C) are $4.77 from the local Napa store and Bergen sells them for $10.95 each. Just imagine what the mark-up is for Bergen specific parts. And to think I didn't even get a free jar of vaseline with my kit.
08-31-2007 12:46 AM
 
 
Chris Bergen
Key Veteran
Location: location

I see we're back to rehashing our pices Bob. Seems like we had this conversation on HF where I explained the agreement we have with companies such as Great Planes and Horizon limit us on how much we can resell radio equipment for...And IIRC I even suggested that you don't HAVE to buy it from us!!

For the uninitiated, here you have two individuals who insisted on NOT operating their birds as we suggest, Gigi's complaint about the clutch stems from wanting to run it at, what was it gigi, 1250 rotor RPM? when it was DESIGNED to run higher http://runryder.com/helicopter/t184371p1/

As far as the fan shrouds, well we did have a run of the shrouds that ended up brittle, and EVERY SINGLE ONE that cracked were replaced FOC when brought to our attention. Of course that is simply forgotten. Anyone care to guess the cost of shipping to Haiti? Gigi knows. How about the time spent helping with a USED heli, be it on the internet, phone, or email. No, thank YOU very much.

Bob is also one who wants to run his bird in a different manner than we suggest. And that is JUST fine, it is his bird after all. The problem is when he "suggests" that others, especially people new to gassers, also run it "his" way, counter to what we recommend. Then when it is explained that if run in a different manner we cannot help when there are difficulties such as vibrations or burnt up motors, he takes that as meaning we WON't help and feels left out in the cold....(still no response to the e-mail I sent to you....Maybe your spam filter is working as well???)If anyone wants interesting reading, I do tend to save file pages of posts for future reference, in case someone decide to delete or alter them.....

Guys, this is supposed to be YOUR HOBBY. If you are so unhappy with your purchase or our service (which to 99.999% of our customers is exemplary, by the way), then sell the thing and go buy a heli that you have to wait 6 months for parts, or that have wobbly fans, or that have shafts that are so soft the bearings eat into them, or that cost half again as much as ours and STILL have HUMAN mistakes crop up on occasion.

We have been known to send parts for free when we screw up, or even when we think that maybe the customer screwed them up, but just in case we concentrate on keeping them flying and hope that the customer will remember how we treated them when they make a decision on future purchases, to get parts to a University overnight so they can make a deadline and the Competition (hoping to get paid for those $250.00 blades) after their Autopilot decided to go kamikaze on them.

But what we DO NOT do is price ourselves out of business, to make such a small profit that we can't afford to support the hobbyists at funfly's and jamborees, This is NOT our hobby, this is our business, what I use to feed my children and make sure they have healthcare and shoes to go to school. This is not done part time from a garage, we employ full time American Workers with American wages, we do NOT use cheap overseas parts and subsidize a foreign government that may very soon decide they don't like us much anymore....

I hope both of you find your relief from your troubles, but sometimes it's amazing that troubles just continue even after trying something else...http://www.heli-freak.com/archive/i...hp/t-36622.html or http://www.heli-freak.com/archive/i...hp/t-38625.html
(just remove the "-".

Ever find those bolts?

Chris Bergen
08-31-2007 05:18 AM
 
 
rtrickyjr
Veteran
Location: Drumore, PA (SW of Quarryville)

Amen, Chris. You sent me six(6) new tail rotor bellcranks, free, when you decided to upgrade them, and two of those helis were used, and you knew it, and still gave them to me. I to bought used Bergens on here before, two were in great shape, one was trashed, but I rebuilt it from the ground up (buyer beware, etc), and I love them! Very serviceable, the raptors are slowly being sold off (can't fine tune them like the bergens).

You guys have beat the 'dead horse' enough on here, why not sell them and just 'let it go'?


-Rick-
08-31-2007 05:30 AM
 
 
Autoeject
Key Veteran
Location: Ashtabula, OH, USA

Quote 
You guys have beat the 'dead horse' enough on here, why not sell them and just 'let it go'?


Because that's not what this is all about.

Mark Webber
wai-rc.com
Spartan RC Distributor
Outrage Helicopters
08-31-2007 10:35 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
rtrickyjr
Veteran
Location: Drumore, PA (SW of Quarryville)

Looks like it is to me ... still bashing, in public, on RR.

Getting old


-Rick-
08-31-2007 03:03 PM
 
 
jschenck
Elite Veteran
Location: La Vista, NE.

I do find it interesting that there is no reply to my question

...yep...
08-31-2007 03:30 PM
 
 
Rappy 60
Senior Heliman
Location: Houston, Texas

Well I have been sitting on the side lines for awhile now with the Bergen Woes. I have to say that I was not impressed at all with the brand new bergen I purchased. First of all, I had to tap several holes just to get the bolts in. I had a washout that the pin flew out of, have had bolts back out on me on the tail constantly, which I now have had to locktite with the red stuff. I have had the grip control arm loosen up on me on more than one occasion and the list keeps going on.

After having said all this, it flies great... however the problem for me is that it requires alot of extra time to keep them flying. I have also lost all confidence in the machine, I think its just going to vibrate apart in the sky.

Customer service I have to say is great, but I think that would be required to run this bird, I hate to say.

My raptors and other helis (which are half the price and foreign made) don't require this much care to keep them flying.

Now that I have come out of the closet, Im sure that the loyal bergen owners are going to jump all over me for bad mouthing the bergen. At this point I really don't care.... I know the problems I have/had with this machine and nothing you say will change that.

Dale

Load "*",8,1
08-31-2007 08:51 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Chris Bergen
Key Veteran
Location: location

I trust that the "loyal Bergen Owners" will not jump all over you, and that is not my intention for Bob or Gigi either.

It does seem that some have difficulties, and some have the same difficulties, and it is hard for me and those that have NOT had the same difficulties to understand why you are.

The same can be said of other manufacturer models also. Without naming names all you have to do is look around here on RR to see it. Some customers have difficulties with assembling their birds, flying their birds, tuning their birds, where others with the same exact heli did not run into those difficulties.

I have customers call me after reading these posts, asking what they may have missed because they have not seen the same problem, and is it something that they should be concerned with!

If you are having vibration problems, YES your machine WILL destroy itself in the air. I don't care whose machine you have, whether it's a T-rex 450 or a Yamaha R-Max, vibrations will kill it. I have said it before and will say it again, this is why we make certain recommendations, and why when you run outside of those recommendations, that I can't help you figure out the problem. We have to have a common base to troubleshoot from.

Chris Bergen
08-31-2007 10:34 PM
 
 
gigi
Veteran
Location: Port-au-Prince, Haiti

From Gigi, with Love...

I want to say a few things:

1) I bought a used Bergen. That was my mistake. I paid too much for it, not to mention the $1,000 dollars worth of new parts I also bought at the same time from the seller. That was also my mistake. I bought more parts for it when it needed them, such as the fan shroud. That was my mistake. I assume ALL those mistakes and am stuck with the machine until I sell it, if I ever do.

2) The machine is in perfect mechanical condition. Any loose bearings have been repaced. All shafts turn true. The "vibration" I have is tail fin buzz. It does have a cosmetic defect, the canopy is cracked, but it came that way from the painter. Bad luck shipping, I guess. But the machine runs. It has not flown long enough recently for me to dial the needles from the position where the motor starts, idles, transitions, and seems to run quite well. Since it's my fault for using blue Loctite, I'll try again with the bottle of red Loctite I bought specially for the purpose. What happens is one thing or another loosens and cuts short my "learning".

3) I have a GV-1 / Stator Gator on it, and only ran it below 1,650 rpm ONCE. I had it hovering at 1,500 rpm. I'll never do that blunder again, since Chris was indeed very helpful in telling me that's why the clutch I never heard slip overheated the main gear. I *NEVER* hovered let alone fly my heli at 1,250 rpm. All right, I'm wrong, I may have done that just for kicks to my Raptor I did hover it once like that for a couple of minutes. That was a lot of fun.

4) I am extremely impressed with the level of service of Bergen. It's excellent and friendly, bar none. I have spoken to them on the phone, they have bent over backwards to help me. I appreciate it, and mean them no harm. This post on RR was the result of reading a magazine review which made me feel vindicated, and helped me move past my frustration with the machine, which has been sitting disassembled for months since its last "problem". Incidentally, I did not put it in the BRC forum, I put it in the main forum. The Adminstrator decided to move it.

5) I don't know about anybody else, but I, personally, am indeed not satisfied with the used Bergen Intrepid I bought (And that's a polite understatement.) I would not have been satisfied with a brand-spanking new one. The reality of it is that I don't like the layout, the tiny fasteners, the make-do cut-off ball-links on the tail rotor, the 11,000 rpm-or-bust clutch, the multiple adjustments which always seem to be required to the myriad of assemblies in slots, and I've been extremely diappointed with the price of the parts, no matter how big the smile from the Bergen staff when I am told they have shipped. Most importantly, I feel just like Rappy 60, I simply have no confidence in the machine, as I never know WHEN (not if) it's going to shed a bolt, or a bearing, or a gear, or whatever else these things shed when they feel like it.

6) For those who are happy with their Bergens, I'm glad that it's working out for you. Personally, I hate mine! That doesn't mean I will sell it for a pitance. I'd rather keep it safely unpowered on the ground as a reminder to fully investigate both sides of the story when making a significant purchase in the future. Lesson learned for the rest of my life!

Caveat Emptor... (Buyer Beware!)

Gigi

My heli spending has gone way down since I got a Honda 919 :-)
08-31-2007 11:26 PM
 
 
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Bergen R/C Helicopters > Bergen Intrepid Gasser review in August 2007 MHW
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