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JR-Spektrum . Gyro Hobbies . E-flite

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Flybarless Rotor Head Systems > Ion-X2 - Flybarless (!)
 
 
MrMel
Elite Veteran
Location: Lidingo, Sweden

Do you feel depressed?

Get an Ion-X2 with VStabi system on it, it will put a big smile on your face.


Its actually completely utterly insane!


With paddles and 690 blades I could bog it pretty hard, Yesterday I put on the Vstabi and put on 710 blades instead

Flying it was just insane, +-14 degree pitch, hardest part was to make the tictocs stay low, it was really hard

Only sad part is that I need to get 3 vstabi system more now, gonna hurt my wallet.

Some might remember I tried it on my Stratus before, with mixed results.
First, this time Ive come up with a better head solution, not stealing torque from the servo's, second, last time I had the Tail Torque compensation reversed, forgot that MA has the tail blades on the other side...


Here is my solution for the head.

The cone shaped distances used are from Logo VBar head.

Setup:
Ion-X2
Actro 32-3 at 11.26:1 ratio
PowerJazz
2 x 6s1p 5000 = 12s1p 5000
VBlades 710, 105 on tail.

Gonna try to shoot a video as soon as I have the opportunity.







08-15-2007 Over year old.
 
 
T-rexn8
Senior Heliman
Location: COLORADO

WOW.
That is Fu**ing Awesome!!

WE NEED VIDEO !!

What other differences are you noticing?

Flightpower Batteries
08-15-2007 Over year old.
 
 
MrMel
Elite Veteran
Location: Lidingo, Sweden

Even bigger grin when charging the batteries after todays flight!, so longer flight-time was a result as well, dont know how much exactly, yet, but I would guesstimate 1-1.5min longer.
08-15-2007 Over year old.
 
 
3D Heli Ireland
Veteran
Location: Ireland

Hey MrMel

I have worked with the CSM flybarless system to great effect on a Fury Extreme (check my gallery) but I must say I like your mechanical set up! It is neat and does not require a specifically designed blade grip. I think I will give this a go with my CSM Cyclock system.

Thanks for the pics

David

Miniature Aircraft USA
Motors & Rotors
CSM
FlightPower
SAB
Cool Power
08-15-2007 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Horacio
Veteran
Location: Mexifornia

Can one assume that this would also work for the Razor?
If so, where can it be purchased and how much?
Are there any drawbacks?

Thanks
08-15-2007 Over year old.
 
 
3D Heli Ireland
Veteran
Location: Ireland

Sorry MrMel for hijacking your thread a bit, but the CSM system consists of two 720 gyros and a Cyclock CCPM mixer. The gyros can be purchased in the UK for about £115 each and the mixer for £50. The VStabi system costs £550 in the UK.

The advantage with the CSM system is that if you ever decide to sell the system or use it else where then you have two gyros and a CCPM mixer that can be used anywhere else or sold seperately. The Mikado system is a dedicated unit and I can't comment on it's performance as I have never used it.

As for use on a Razor I would say that would be perfect. In that configuration the Razor head is essentially the same as the Ion so is would work the same.

Miniature Aircraft USA
Motors & Rotors
CSM
FlightPower
SAB
Cool Power
08-15-2007 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
MrMel
Elite Veteran
Location: Lidingo, Sweden

Dont forget that VStabi is 3 gyro in one, it will take care of the rudder for you too.

VStabi is (current version today) designed for Electric Helis, so vibrations can be an issue, I will go with CSM on my nitro stratus.
However, VStabi coming out with a different sensor for just that.

VStabi has all settings in one system, where you can "click" on "more stable" for sample and it will change every setting for you, CSM is a bit more of tinkering needed.
(Dont fool yourself though, whatever route there is tons of settings)

But safe to say, fat chance that my powerhogging-paddlebased-helis will get airtime now, NOT...

Ive been flying the VStabi (before I put it on the Ion) on my Logo 14, it was big difference in power on that too, but not as big as on the Ion, I guess its squared to how long blades you have...

Best thing is that you can lower headspeed with unaffected cyclic speed (like I did today), that way you get alot more flighttime.
More power is great, but I probably gonna end up with lowering the pitch a bit, when doing piro-flips, if you sneeze at the stick you end up 100 yards away...
08-15-2007 Over year old.
 
 
THX1138
Elite Veteran
Location: Plainfield, IN

I want to go flybarless on a Razor. V-bar is costly but CSM looks like a difficult install. What is the medium?

Lou

Bowstrings, Banjo's, and Birkenstocks.
08-16-2007 Over year old.
 
 
J2M
Senior Heliman
Location: UK

Mr Mel,

Very neat head setup. May I ask where you got that swash driver from?
08-17-2007 Over year old.
 
 
MrMel
Elite Veteran
Location: Lidingo, Sweden

Vario

Partnumber 68/20 I think.
08-17-2007 Over year old.
 
 
J2M
Senior Heliman
Location: UK

Great. Thanks for the super quick reply!
08-17-2007 Over year old.
 
 
MrMel
Elite Veteran
Location: Lidingo, Sweden

68/25 is a cheaper alternative that will work too.

I ordered mine from www.variocanada.com
08-17-2007 Over year old.
 
 
J2M
Senior Heliman
Location: UK

Thank you!
08-17-2007 Over year old.
 
 
MrMel
Elite Veteran
Location: Lidingo, Sweden

Head version 3.

Just testing around for the optimal solution, this will allow a bit more cyclic pitch, but not as much as putting the double-link directly onto the holder.

(cyclic pitch is right between using mixing arm and double-link directly onto holder)

I load tested it, it dont bend, however the blade grips twist some, dont know if thats Ok or not,

Flight-test tomorrow, guess we will see.




08-18-2007 Over year old.
 
 
T-rexn8
Senior Heliman
Location: COLORADO

Thanks for the pictures. I hope one day we will see a video of the elusive, flybarless Ion-X 2 Oh I am so jeleous.

Flightpower Batteries
08-18-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Chachin
Senior Heliman
Location: Cape Canaveral, FL

Wow MrMel, you definitely got my attention!! I have my Ion-X2 conversion kit on the way from MA. Looking forward to it.

I heard from Tony that the Vbar system price will drop in September to around $700. At that price I am definitely interested in getting one or two of those to try flybarless. I figure play it safe with the Bionic or Logo10 (to learn the system) and then put the other one in the Ion of course .

It looks like your latest head version 3 is tougher on the servos than the first set of pics (V2?).

Thanks for the pictures. Saved them since they may come in handy later on.

Let us know about the VIDEO .

Chachin..

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08-19-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Eco8gator
Key Veteran
Location: Palm Beach Gardens, FL

Hello

Are you sure you need to go so far out on the head. I would move the balls on the servo arms farther in and move the balls on the head farther in. I think you could be putting too much torque on those screws going into the head..

But the Ion looks great, keep us posted on your progress.

C
08-19-2007 Over year old.
 
 
MrMel
Elite Veteran
Location: Lidingo, Sweden

Quote 
Are you sure you need to go so far out on the head. I would move the balls on the servo arms farther in and move the balls on the head farther in. I think you could be putting too much torque on those screws going into the head..


If you put them further in you get too much pitch travel, putting more load on the servo and lost resolution.
08-19-2007 Over year old.
 
 
3D Heli Ireland
Veteran
Location: Ireland

Hey Eco8gator Mel is right as testing so far has proven that extending the blade grip arm is the way you have to go. It gives you the correct ratio for the head. An important key to the performance however is the stiffness of the whole blade grip, the stiffer the better. You will see that alot of the top guys, Duncan Osbourn, Curtis etc have replaced their blade grips with metal ones for this reason.

Loving this thread by the way...

Miniature Aircraft USA
Motors & Rotors
CSM
FlightPower
SAB
Cool Power
08-19-2007 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
MrMel
Elite Veteran
Location: Lidingo, Sweden

Video!

Second flight today, mostly trying some settings and trying to get a feel for the heli.

Head V3 is good, however, will try metal grips next.

http://www.dacsa.net/heli/ionx2/flybarless/ionx2.avi (80 megs)

DivX codec is used, http://www.divx.com/divx/windows/codec/
08-20-2007 Over year old.
 
 
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Flybarless Rotor Head Systems > Ion-X2 - Flybarless (!)
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