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Synergy R/C Synergy N9 > Synergy Tail Failure ... Again!!!!!
 
 
u.k. sailor
Veteran
Location: cambs uk

Given that the blade holders are pulled outwards by centrifugal force I doubt that what is seen on the hub is an issue.
As we know vibration is a killer, and If! that is the underlying cause of a failure a better or different bolt is only likely to delay that failure not prevent it.

In Jan henseleits instructions he advises the use of plastic tail blades because he says the carbon ones can Vibrate on a precision tail system causeing failure.
Please note his tail has TWO radial bearings.

Aditionaly he instructs the bolt which holds the assembly together be changed (despite the plastic blades) if the tail blades have hit the ground in other than the most minor of ways, or failure is possible.

I have stripped my tail down as part of the winter overhaul, and found both radial bearings and the pitch slider bearings to be notchy, how this occured i'm not sure but I dont think the bearing quality is an issue as they are I believe high quality.
The model had shown some vibration late in the year, but the TT seemed okay, and I think the rough bearings are probably the culprits.
If high frequency vibration was present then I would expect a failure at some point in time, regardless of the bolts used, or whether there was a second radial bearing in the system.
I will be changing out all the bearings and fitting new bolts, as the old ones have already been living in this enviroment.
I have been running 105 carbon tail blades and will continue to do so on this model.

Food for thought perhaps
12-31-2007 09:01 AM
 
 
skyblade30
Heliman
Location: Paris, France

A Good idea ?

Hi,

I had a tail failure after 49 flights with a Hirobo M3x8 screw and radix 105mm tail blades.

I 'll try simply with two radical bearings on each tail blade grip and NO thrust bearings like the raptor 90.
I will also fix the bearings on the tail hub with some green or blue loctite (I know It will be impossible to replace the blade grip...)
04-08-2008 10:11 PM
 
 
Fernando
Senior Heliman
Location: Madrid

get the Kasama hub
04-08-2008 11:31 PM
 
 
Gary Steward
Senior Heliman
Location: Steele.Missouri

I`m new to this forum and I bought a use N9.I do have 23 years experience in the hobby though.
I did take my tail apart to check everything.
What I discovered was that the cap screws were not perfectly true as I screwed them in.
The head wobbled on them badly, if this was your case it would look as though you over tightened when really they were stress the head of the bolt was straighten as you tightened .

Gary Steward
04-09-2008 02:18 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Fernando
Senior Heliman
Location: Madrid

Same issue as with the MA tail hub for the people that can remember and in this case the steel broken was 5mm.

The problem is not the screw, the problem is the stress of radial forces supported by one single radial bearing on a tiny screw. In the case of the Synergy the load is enormous because the arch is the biggest in the market.
04-09-2008 09:53 PM
 
 
Gary Steward
Senior Heliman
Location: Steele.Missouri

Fernando I guess you don`t understand what using substandard screws can do .
If i would have not check the screws I would have had a tail failure for sure.
Probably before I completed the first tank.
So far I haven`t had any problems
The Ma was the Hub breaking not the screw.

Gary Steward
04-10-2008 01:35 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Carl Bonta
Senior Heliman
Location: Elgin, IL USA

fernando is correct. You could with two bearing get away with an aluminum screw, I know this is hard to believe but true. We are using the prototype tail hub with soft stainless screws no problem.

Remember it has absolutely nothing to do with the screw, if you put the best possible screw in place it would just take longer to happen.
04-10-2008 03:00 AM
 
 
HiroboFreak
Senior Heliman
Location: Central Coast, NSW, Australia

Got a spare prototype hub assembly hanging around Carl?

Synergy N9 | T600n Pro
04-10-2008 03:19 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Gary Steward
Senior Heliman
Location: Steele.Missouri

Just my two cents guys.I`m not going to take any chances though, I`ll be doing the nylon nut upgrade right away.Till I can get the new Hub.

Carl get those CNC`s a cycle started..... LOL

GS

Gary Steward
04-10-2008 03:43 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
furychamarro
Senior Heliman
Location: Villahermosa, Mexico

Quote 
fernando is correct. You could with two bearing get away with an aluminum screw, I know this is hard to believe but true. We are using the prototype tail hub with soft stainless screws no problem.

I've been following this thread really close cause I own a Synergy. Have about 10 flights with no failure yet, but I am a little concern about a possible failure. I'm using radix 95 on the tail.

My question goes to you Carl. What do you suggest to do right now? Ground our synergys until the new hub hits the market? if this is the case please let me know when it'll be available because I really enjoy flying my Synergy.

thanks a lot

Vic
04-10-2008 04:46 AM
 
 
Carl Bonta
Senior Heliman
Location: Elgin, IL USA

Vic,

I dont know when they will be out...But Todd came up with a very good temp. solution and that is to use a longer screw and screw it in to a 3mm locknut backwards, still using the washer. What this does is get the stress riser away from the end of the hub, simple and Tyler flew half of last year like that with no failure or even signs of failure, I checked the screw when I installed the proto hub. He flys 105 Radix, you have a best case sanario because you are using super light tail blades and are 95mm in length, I would think you have pletty of tail power even with 95's.

I would do the nut job until the hub is out.
04-10-2008 06:48 AM
 
 
RotorHead486
Key Veteran
Location: England

Hey Guys,

Just thought i would chime in and let you know of a modification i have been working on and currently testing.

Using a Thrust race upgrade from QuickUK and an extra radial bearing i have modified the tail rotor to use two radial bearings and a single thrust race.

What i have done is replace the original thrust race with a radial bearing which provides more support and a much smoother operating tail than the original and then using the thrust race upgrade kit from QuickUK added to the hub which basically extend's the hub.

This thrust race upgrade was orignally used as an upgrade for the QuickUK CNC Alloy tail rotor assy for the raptor series but the thrust race and hub extension are perfect diameter for the Synergy hub.


Below you can see the hub extension upgrade in place:

Below you can see the complete thrust bearing upgrade in place:


This is basically a simple modification, the only area requiring any work is to relieve the blade grip where the thrust race is going to go as generally tail blade grips have a slight step in them to allow for free rotation of the thrust race, the synergy grips do not have this and this has been one of the contributing factors in the failures of the tail rotor assemblies. What i did was to install a bearing (old one if available) and then using either a file or Dremel which i used with a file tip, file away the area where thr thrust race is going to be. If you install a bearing and allow the tip of the dremel to run on it you will only be relieveing the area that is required be the thrust race and the area for the radial bearing stays tight.

I have not had enough time on the mod'd tail assy yet so only time will tell. But if any of you want to give it a go and let me know how you find it, please feel free.

Update:I've been flying the Mod for a few months now and so far it seems to holding up well, no changes needed to gyro settings etc...

Cheers!
Rossco

One Reason For Crashing'Rogue Servo Bent on World Domination'!!
QuickUK Pilot
04-10-2008 09:42 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
GScott
Key Veteran
Location: Lewis Center, OH

I looked into the Quick UK solution but no one sells that upgrade any longer. I couldn't even find it on the Quick UK website.
04-10-2008 02:07 PM
 
 
Bart B
Veteran
Location: Synergy alley

Carl
Why don't you make a batch of tailgrips to match the mainblade grips?
They'll sell like hotcakes and would compliment the already superior product line of Hyperformance offerings.
I'll throw my Kasama tail stuff in the trash can and buy yours
Guys,now would be a good time to let the Hyperdudes know the same.

....sometimes you're the blade,sometimes you're the bug.
04-10-2008 02:46 PM
 
 
bkervaski
Key Veteran
Location: Birmingham, AL, USA

I would buy a Hyperformance metal tail grib/hub set.

... will work for fuel ... Bill
04-10-2008 02:52 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
GScott
Key Veteran
Location: Lewis Center, OH

I would buy a set as well if they used the same design as the SE ones that are still vaporware. I really like that the SE version does not use linkage balls on the tail grips. Despite numerous attempts with the Hypersizer that is still the one area keeping my N9 tail from being silky smooth.
04-10-2008 02:55 PM
 
 
Carl Bonta
Senior Heliman
Location: Elgin, IL USA

Gscott

You need to use a 3/32 drill and run it thru the pitch plate holes as the anno has built up in them, this was suggested I think by chuckey and is a solution to the problem, I had the same thing on all I built.

Jim and I are in the process of the tailblade grips (3-4 weeks) and it will not req. the new longer "BOTOS" hub, which is the ultimate solution because it allows for either the existing stock plastic grip or metal SE. It is Matt's design therefore Synergy property.

I'm out...got grips to work on.
04-10-2008 03:50 PM
 
 
Doug L
Veteran
Location: Minnesota

Add me to the list Carl.

-----------------------------
04-10-2008 03:56 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Marshall Burrou
Senior Heliman
Location: Maumelle, Arkansas

GScott

Quote 
would buy a set as well if they used the same design as the SE ones that are still vaporware. I really like that the SE version does not use linkage balls on the tail grips. Despite numerous attempts with the Hypersizer that is still the one area keeping my N9 tail from being silky smooth.

If you take a small pair of pliers and slightly compress the link while it is on the ball, it will solve the problem. Mine is silky smooth.. This works on all links on the machine!


CurtisYoungblood.com
04-10-2008 04:03 PM
 
 
RotorHead486
Key Veteran
Location: England

GScott:

If you contact QuickUK they should be able to arrange the upgrade kit for you.

Cheers!

One Reason For Crashing'Rogue Servo Bent on World Domination'!!
QuickUK Pilot
04-10-2008 04:09 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
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Synergy R/C Synergy N9 > Synergy Tail Failure ... Again!!!!!
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