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Flybarless Rotor Head Systems > 3D masters CSM Flybarless

raptorheli2
Elite Veteran
Location: rip off britain and no changing it

3dm is THE show in our hobby. no doubt a lot of newcomers (thinking of buying a heli possibly) seen that demo and will not think twice now about strapping whatever pos they buy off of ebay down and sparking it up and i guess they will argue quite right, they seen it done at a major event so it must be cosher.

this isn't about trusting csm and let me clarify. i'd have said JR's quality was FAR higher than aligns (i'm sure most will agree) yet one of their heads came off midflight at the comp. i have also lost a head on a rappy 50 when the jesus bolt let go.....calculated risk eh...ummmmmm

cheers

www.waterfoothelis.com

07-24-2007 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

MrKev
Heliman
Location: Headley Down, Hampshire, UK

My 2 cents

I saw (and enjoyed listening to) the demo.

According to Colin, he had been experimenting with this rig for quite some time on his own premises, so don't get the impression from this thread that some clueless person just got a bit of wood and tied a helicopter they'd just bought to it.

I think Colin is well aware of exactly what forces exist in a helicopter rotor head, and corespondingly the necessary steps to be taken to ensure that the airframe is safe for a demonstration.

--
Kevin.
Sponsored in the UK by my Missus.

07-24-2007 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

raptorheli2
Elite Veteran
Location: rip off britain and no changing it

it's plainly obvious there is a differing of opinions of whats safe and whats not, thats life and we can deal with that. lets just leave it there and enjoy the products they release.

i still await some video of it, did you happen to get any since you seen the demo?

cheers

www.waterfoothelis.com

07-24-2007 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

RussD
Veteran
Location: UK

If you think a tried tested and mathmetically caluculated demo is scary... you wanna try sitting in one of the judges chairs when you can see an in-correct input from a pilot... ever seen 5 confused people trying to clamber out of chairs in different directions under a gazebo, with power and communication leads wrapped round your muddy boots

If you like; I can contact Colin and obtain the exact method of testing / calculations and conditions of the demo it if helps???

RussD.

07-24-2007 Over year old.

RappyTappy
Elite Veteran
Location: Las Vegas, NV

and they say we only use a few percent of our brain capacity, bah on them! lol

Chris
Xero G

Forever Brothers
Mickey Tylo

07-24-2007 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

wardd
Heliman
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Quote
If you like; I can contact Colin and obtain the exact method of testing / calculations and conditions of the demo it if helps???

Sorry Russ buth no explination of any calculations / conditions can excuse running a machine like that in the vicinity of spectators without any protection for them whatsoever.

You mention judges at risk from a pilot error. The issue here is possible machine failure, which cannot be ruled out for many reasons including incorrect setup / maintenance and component failure. Many of us saw the head come off one heli in the competition.

What would the result of a serious injury (or worse) be on future 3DM events. Insurance for one could make it prohibitive.

IMHO we need a response here from the event organisers and CSM.

07-24-2007 Over year old.

RussD
Veteran
Location: UK

Hi wardd,

I guess the problem for the organisers is where to draw the line with all of the competition flying and demos at 3DM ???

Personnally, I am happy to help someone set-up an un-tested model of which I have little or no knowledge of the persons construction skills at a club or sit 15 feet from competition pilots for 3 days who are flying their models to and in some cases past the limit of the models abilities, or watch a demo on a control system by someone whom I personally know would have made every possible effort to ensure the demo was safe. I am also willing to travel for 70-80% of my working day on some of the UK's busiest roads, but these are obviously all calculated risks on my part.

In this context, I guess the problem is that if organisers of any sport based event expressed absolute caution, no sporting event would ever take place... and if absolute caution was enforced into daily life, I would not have a job or be allowed to step out of my house.

It sure is one difficult call to make...

RussD.

07-24-2007 Over year old.

raptor50luvver
Veteran
Location: southampton UK

What we are getting at is that no heli manufacturer will condone strapping the thing down and running it up to flying power,if its hovering freely thats a whole different scenario...

To do a proper risk assesment Align or a representative on their behalf would have to have agreed that its OK to run their product under such conditions.......did they?

I have been too close to this before when $hit happened,,,people said in earlier posts that it was shifting air when running so pitch was being applied and the model was being restrained..

A simple protective screen would have seemed sensible,,,but hey ho,nothing went wrong at the end of the day

From my experience recently,most companies are very reluctant to suggest nothing but the absolute norm for any use of a product and the slightest misuse in any way resulting in an accident usually gets the lawsuit lawyers popping up..

07-24-2007 Over year old.

raptorheli2
Elite Veteran
Location: rip off britain and no changing it

Quote
What where those nets for at the 3dm?.

fishing i think given the weather.

cheers

www.waterfoothelis.com

07-24-2007 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

raptor50luvver
Veteran
Location: southampton UK

LMAO

Even thru all the bunfighting you gotta laugh

07-24-2007 Over year old.

Patriot
Veteran
Location: Luton

If people didn't feel safe watching the demo they could get up and leave, no one forced them to sit through the seminar and from what I saw Colin did enough to make the demo safe for all who watched it.

Just smile

07-25-2007 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Carl Bonta
Senior Heliman
Location: Elgin, IL USA

We left that tent as fast as we could!!! Plastic main grips and cable ties, should have been metal grips and hose clamps!!!

Just NOT A GOOD IDEA

Please do not try this at IRCHA, it will not go over very well.

07-25-2007 Over year old.

raptor50luvver
Veteran
Location: southampton UK

Err

Your seriously not saying it was only secured with cable ties are you?

I at least assumed the pic was not with it in its readiness for running

07-25-2007 Over year old.

simpson
Veteran
Location: wolverhampton uk

i think its 1 in 17 people get badly injured in there car by road traffic accidents but we all drive to the masters.
so to my thoughts you have more chance getting hurt travelling to the masters than being there..actually..also more chance of falling down the wet slope and hurting yourself than being in that tent//a few did fall down the slope but never got hurt im glad to say
and lets face it in the uk at the moment there is a problem with flooding..some people are stranded at home and some there property's floating down the road

my advice is go save the people that do need you and worry not whats never happened
cheers lads lets look up
craig

07-25-2007 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

TOSH
Elite Veteran
Location: UK.

You guys think that`s dangerous. Try telling my misses why you`re late home from the pub and couldn`t get the front door open with waking her up. Makes anything Colin Mill can come up with seem like a walk in the park.