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Vario Sky Fox - Benzin - Evolution - Xtreme > Vario Trainer and tail shaking problem
 
 
pasi
Heliman
Location: Helsinki - Finland

Hey,

I have done my Vario and now when I am lifting it it starts to shake little bit. I tried gyro sensitive. If Gyro is set to heading lock mode (or what ever it's called) it's shakes little bit from left to right, but if I put gyro to normal mode it dont shake any more, but flyeing with that is impossible.

I got Futaba 401 + servo included in that package.


Any ideas whats wrong? Whats yours Gyro setup? or is there some kind mechanical problem?

Thanks
-pasi
06-25-2007 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
andrewp28
Senior Heliman
Location: Toronto, Ontario - Canada

My setup is a GY401 with a Hitec 6965. I can set the gyro sensitivity up to about 80% both modes without tail wagging, my usual setting is 60%. If the engine is rich (for example during break-in) you will have some tail shaking. Also if your tail blades are not balanced you will have tail shake. My tail blades required balancing. Imbalance or tracking problems in the main rotor system can affect the tail. Because your shaking goes away in normal mode, I would double check your gyro settings. What servo are you using? Is it digital? Is the 401 set to digital mode? Is delay set on the gyro? What are the limit settings on the 401? How and where is the gyro mounted to the helicopter? Is the linkage to the t/r smooth?
06-25-2007 Over year old.
 
 
pasi
Heliman
Location: Helsinki - Finland

Here is answers:

GY401 + S9254 digital servo
Gyro set to Digital
Delay = have to check that one. Should there be any delays?
Gyro mounted front of heli. just above were cabin is connected from front.
Linkage from servo to tail is super smooth.


So I will balance my tail blades and run my engine not so rich.
06-25-2007 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
andrewp28
Senior Heliman
Location: Toronto, Ontario - Canada

9254 - Delay should be 0. Limit should be close to 100. Adjust mechanical to get 100 on the limit. Sounds like a good setup. What are your gain settings, heading hold and normal? Be careful with the engine, don't go lean. What are your needles at?
06-25-2007 Over year old.
 
 
pasi
Heliman
Location: Helsinki - Finland

Thanks andrewp28 for quick answers....

I think delay is 0 and limits should be near 100. I will check those tomorrow when I can see my heli. I cant remember Gain settings...

Where my needles should be?

Thanks
-pasi
06-25-2007 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
andrewp28
Senior Heliman
Location: Toronto, Ontario - Canada

Needle settings depend on oil/gas ratio, carburetor, muffler altitude above sea level, etc.. You can find a LOT of information in the Vario and Gasser forums, also on other web sites, do a search with keywords "RC230 needle settings". If you have a stock RC230 with a Walbro 603 carb, stock airfilter, muffler and 32:1 oil, you can try 1 1/2 turns out on the low needle and 1 1/4 turns out on the high needle as a starting point, maybe start with 1 1/2 on the high needle as well to be safe. Don't go any leaner than 1 1/4 on either needle. When researching remember that there are differences between the RC230 and the G230-260PUH and the various models of Walbro carb, this will add to the confusion. If you have any doubt as to your ability to set the needles it may be well worth your while to travel some distance to have someone with experience tune the engine for you.
06-25-2007 Over year old.
 
 
pasi
Heliman
Location: Helsinki - Finland

hey,

settings in radio are (futaba 9)

mode GY
mix ACT
rate-up AVC 65%


are those ok?
06-26-2007 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
andrewp28
Senior Heliman
Location: Toronto, Ontario - Canada

AVCS = Heading Hold. 65% is not unreasonable. Check your "down" (normal) setting. For now try them at the same setting. If your "up" setting is for example 65%, and your "down" setting is 50%, your solution is obvious - lower the "up" setting to match the "down" setting. In other words your setup as it is now cannot handle higher gyro gains. If they are the same right now, then continue on with troubleshooting other factors. By the way if your "down" setting is 0, it means your gyro is off at that setting.
06-26-2007 Over year old.
 
 
pasi
Heliman
Location: Helsinki - Finland

wow, you are fast.


At this point I dont use "down" at all. I am making this heli to AP-ship so I might just use.


Here is how and where my gyro is
06-26-2007 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
andrewp28
Senior Heliman
Location: Toronto, Ontario - Canada

Okay, some would say your mounting tape is not good. I have only used Zeal mounting tape (shown in the photo below) and the green foam tape that comes with Futaba gyros, so I cannot comment on any other kind of mounting tape. I have read that the Futaba tape is quite special and is designed to absorb EMF from the gyro case as well as vibration. In the GY401 instructions Futaba specifies to only use their tape.

I originally mounted the gyro with the green Futaba mounting foam and tail rotor performance was good. However when I mounted the gyro with the Zeal mounting tape, tail rotor performance was much better. You may want to try it. I get mine from Bergen RC, but other suppliers sell it as well.

You may also want to try moving the gyro further back towards the main mast. Mine is on top, where you have what looks like your battery.

Quote 
wow, you are fast.
If my wife said that it would not be a good thing! I've been working in front of the computer a lot, I like to take heli-breaks.

06-26-2007 Over year old.
 
 
pasi
Heliman
Location: Helsinki - Finland

Have to find that tape. Dont know is that available in Finland. Hey, if you keep your Gyro on that place where is my battery where you keep your battery? (EDIT: Oh, I see, in your gallery you got photo of naked trainer)
06-28-2007 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Paradox-UK
Senior Heliman
Location: London, UK

Hi

I use Switch B for my gyro.

May settings are :

Mode :GY
Mix :ACT
Rate-UP :NOR 20%
Down :AVC 38%

Switch up = Normal - Switch Down - AVC mode.

My Benzin Trainer flys extreemly well with these settings.

I don't use Futaba mounting tape - I use standard servo tape on all my models without any problems.

I know a few guys that use the 'mirror adhesive' that is used to mount the rear view mirror to a windshield - green side down is apparently better. I guess thats another option.

Check your installation - is something touching the wires as they exit the gyro? that can cause problems if you have some low freq vibes.

Hope this helps

Mark
06-28-2007 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
pasi
Heliman
Location: Helsinki - Finland

Hey there or here

I finally got time to finish my Vario Benzin trainer and now it looks like working.

Here comes couple sample photos what I took with it today.

Thanks to everybody who have helped me during building and testing.

06-07-2008 05:18 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
xcellgasman101
Elite Veteran
Location: WOODWARD, OKLA....

Congrats pasi,, Nice looking pic's,, XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com
06-07-2008 05:43 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
pasi
Heliman
Location: Helsinki - Finland

And here comes previews what heli look like with helicamsolutions mount. Just have to add some company logo / details to canoby
06-14-2008 10:13 AM
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Vario Sky Fox - Benzin - Evolution - Xtreme > Vario Trainer and tail shaking problem
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