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Main Discussion > Eric B is testing out the EFR-801 electronic needle valve gizmo
 
 
eric_b
Key Veteran
Location: Denver, CO, USA

I thought I would share my experiences with my latest test of a new (at least to me) gizmo - the EFR-801 from PC/RC Products. EFR stands for Electronic Fuel Regulator.



The EFR-801 is no longer being produced by PC/RC, but may still be available elsewhere. MSRP - $159.95

I think this was originally developed for use with rc cars, but I've put it on my Raptor 50. Basically, the EFR-801 is an electronic needle valve. The unit includes a thermocouple, solenoid valve, and a control box. The thermocouple is mounted in the muffler mounting flange and measures the exhaust temperature. The solenoid valve is placed inline between the fuel tank(s) and the carburetor, and meters the fuel according to the engine temperature. The control box has a small processor which calculates the modulation of the solenoid valve based on the exhaust temp and the throttle setting. The throttle servo, receiver, thermocouple and valve solenoid all connect to this control box. Everything is powered via the receiver from the existing flight battery.

The manufacturer claims "No more manual engine tuning, no more guessing, no more temp guns. The EFR-801 reads engine temperature off of the header and via a small computer processor, changes your engine settings for you automatically!" and "It automatically tunes your motor resulting in dramatically improved low end and mid range power. It also helps save fuel. It's like having a pit man inside your car tuning your motor on every turn!"

-Sounds like just what I've been looking for. I had to try it to see if it was too good to be true. Is it a winner, or just another gimmick? Read on!

Below are some pics of the installation in my Raptor 50. I decided to put this gizmo on my R50 because I have quite a bit of time on this particular model, and am pretty familiar with how the engine runs (TT-50 heli engine with stock R50 muffler, drinking Cool Power 30% heli fuel, Jo-Z glow plug). This familiarity will give me a better indication of what the EFR-801 is actually doing.



Pictured below is the thermocouple, which is factory affixed to a 6-32 muffler pressure tap, mounted in the muffler flange. I added a bit of high-temp silicon to prevent leaks.



Pictured below is the thermocouple layout on the model.



Pictured below is the solenoid valve, attached to the raptor frame with an eyelet cable tie and black fuel tubing.



Pictured below is the control box, showing the servo and solenoid connections. No, this isn't yet readied for flight in this picture - I added electrical tape to secure the servo and solenoid connectors, tiddied up the wiring and secured the control unit >before< flying. The tri-color LED indicates which mode the EFR is in, and the 5 DIP switches determine the programming, run, cold start, and performance mode settings.



Initially, my EFR settings (cold start = 3 and performance = 12) and my high speed needle valve settings were wrong and I could not keep the engine running. It would lean out and die almost immediately after spooling up the blades. I frowned and scratched my head. I tried different settings. I also couldn't figure out if the thermocouple was working, and why it would lean out. I wondered if the solenoid valve was working correctly as sometimes the characteriestic valve clicking would stop. Later I found that the clicking sound of the valve changes once fuel lubricates the valve innards. I also learned to let the engine warm up fully before trying to fly. By slowly increasing the throttle and letting it run for 15 or 20 seconds at increasing speeds (up to about 40% throttle - the heli is still not airborne yet), the temperature rises slowly and the valve can keep up with the changes. You can actually watch the smoke density change as the engine warms up and the valve reacts. After letting the engine warm up this way for about a minute or two, the EFR is ready to rock.

So far, I'm pleased with it's operation. I can fly my whole routine without worry - the mixture settings are reliable. I can't tell any power difference with the engine under control of the EFR versus a well tuned manual mixture setting, so that's good! My current settings for the EFR-801 are : cold start value = 3, performance setting = 1. I'm not sold yet on the EFR-801, but am impressed with it's ability to maintain a steady mixture throughout the tank - right up until the last teaspoon of fuel! Without the EFR, my TT-50 will begin to lean out when my main tank is down to about 1/4" fuel level (roughly 3-4 ounces remaining). With the EFR, the mixture doesn't lean out, and the engine happily puffs out a steady smoke trail from the beginning of the tank until it leans out from fuel exhaustion.

My normal high speed needle valve setting (without using the EFR) is 2 turns open. The instructions tell you to richen the high speed needle enough so that raw fuel spits out of the exhaust. So I initially set it at 4 turns open. I wasn't able to get satisfactory results this way. My current high speed needle setting is at 2.5 turns open. This gives good performance with the EFR. If I disable the EFR and try to fly at this setting, the engine is way too rich. With the EFR operating, the mixture is just about right, and never leans out even when the fuel head pressure drops. I've kept my low speed needle as it was before (as recommended in the EFR instructions) - 7 turns out.

So, what's the verdict? The EFR-801 works pretty well. It doesn't totally eliminate the need to adjust a carb, or negate knowledge of how to tune an engine, BUT it does a good job in regulating the mixture throughout the run of the tank. So, once setup, the claims of a steady, adjustment free mixture are true, but I haven't seen any increase in fuel economy.

My next experiment will be to use it with an OS .91. My hope is that it can eliminate the mid-range tuning problems of the stock .91 carb. I also want to borrow a temp gun and check the temp differences between manual tuning and EFR-801 tuning.
01-28-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
scotter
Senior Heliman
Location: Elkton, MD

Wow, that's really an interesting little gadget there. So doesn't anyone make these or something like them anymore? I'm surprised I haven't heard of it before, I would think that something like this (if it worked), would be tops on the list of nearly every heli pilot.
01-28-2003 Over year old.
 
 
AdamH
Senior Heliman
Location: Northeast England

That seems a useful device on the face of it. Isn't this the way injection engine cars work with electronic carburation? With cars it seems a more reliable system then conventional carbs but the sensors are a week area. Is the solinoid valve only quantisizing the fuel to the engine? If so how does less fuel = more air and why dosen't it affect throttling?
I don't fully grasp how that takes the job of the needle valve. Wouldn't it be possible to go further and control throttling at the same time and eliminate the servo and make the carb simple mechanically with the work done by the electronics - easyer to setup?
01-28-2003 Over year old.
 
 
TEMPEST BOY
Senior Heliman
Location: down at the barn

EFI

.
01-28-2003 Over year old.
 
 
AdamH
Senior Heliman
Location: Northeast England

thought the Lamba sensor was an oxygen sensor for measuring emissions? How is fuel/air composition accomplished in cars and on the OS FI? Presumably its posible to convert any glow engine to FI.
01-28-2003 Over year old.
 
 
TEMPEST BOY
Senior Heliman
Location: down at the barn

EFI

.
01-28-2003 Over year old.
 
 
JCadwell
Key Veteran
Location: Richland WA/ Morro Bay, CA

Auto fuel injection will usually utilize a manifold absolute pressure sensor (MAP) or a mass airflow sensor (MAF) in conjunction with throttle position sensing, and exhaust sensors.

Thanks, John Cadwell
01-28-2003 Over year old.
 
 
TEMPEST BOY
Senior Heliman
Location: down at the barn

Hi tec

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01-28-2003 Over year old.
 
 
TEMPEST BOY
Senior Heliman
Location: down at the barn

.
01-28-2003 Over year old.
 
 
TEMPEST BOY
Senior Heliman
Location: down at the barn

.
01-28-2003 Over year old.
 
 
TEMPEST BOY
Senior Heliman
Location: down at the barn

Future

.
01-28-2003 Over year old.
 
 
JCadwell
Key Veteran
Location: Richland WA/ Morro Bay, CA

The power valve may not be a big benefit here. Motocross two strokes are required to have power all over the powerband, from idle to overrev. The heli engine is ideally a constant speed application, allowing the optimization of the engine parameters.

The powervalve will change the exhaust port size and timing to optimize power based on RPM, in order to increase power throughout the range. That may not be needed here, for what it is worth. Who cares if you heli engine makes "stump pulling torque" at 5000 RPM, as long as it carburates cleanly, and makes power in a band surrounding its operating RPM.

This technology isn't all that new. Yamaha has been using the EXUP system on their sportbikes for a long time, albeit four strokes. That doesn't mean it isn't intriquing or exciting.

Thanks, John Cadwell
01-28-2003 Over year old.
 
 
TEMPEST BOY
Senior Heliman
Location: down at the barn

.
01-28-2003 Over year old.
 
 
David B
Heliman
Location: Warren, New Jersey

Very interesting thread, thanks for the info. After the injected O.S. engines came out, I started wondering how long it would be before O.S. would be offering a heli engine that came fuel injected with a built in governor. I see no reason they couldn't do it now if they wanted to.
01-28-2003 Over year old.
 
 
eric_b
Key Veteran
Location: Denver, CO, USA

For sale...
http://runryder.com/helicopter/t49994p1/
06-03-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
z11355
rrMaster
Location: 10000 is enough time wasted.

now all we need is to redesign this
little gem.......................

http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html
06-03-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Sar
Elite Veteran
Location: Kingston, NY

Convert to surface mount and you're set, probably 1/4 the size on the circuit board.

--
Jon
06-06-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Airman98
Key Veteran
Location: Southern Illinois

This looks like a great new product! Thanks for the review.
Tim
06-06-2003 Over year old.
 
 
eric_b
Key Veteran
Location: Denver, CO, USA

This one is up for sale:

For sale...
http://runryder.com/helicopter/t49994p1/
06-06-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Vance
Veteran
Location: York ,PA

PC/RC has stopped making & selling them. They may have sold the rights to someone else. I have one. The Mfgr. says that it needs a voltage higher than a 4 cell pack. I asked them about a 9 volt battery and they advised against it. I have put it in my "things to play with later" box. It needs some refining before it is user friendly but it does do what it says it will do. The problem is that by the time you have it working properly you could have your engine tuned correctly. I set my OS engine rich enough at the begining of the flight that by the end of the flight it still isn't too lean. I am too impatient to wait the 40 seconds or so that it needs to spool up correctly.
Vince D
06-07-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
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Main Discussion > Eric B is testing out the EFR-801 electronic needle valve gizmo
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