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Flybarless Rotor Head Systems > Flybarless Swift
 
 
borneobear
Senior Heliman
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

Has anyone mod-ed their Swift to go Flybarless??
I have an AP2000i on my bird and its begging to go flybarless. Only thing is, I don't know how to mod the head to do it.

Anyone out there done this?
05-17-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Ben-T-Spindle
Elite Veteran
Location: Central Illinois

I have tried flybarless on other helicopters and you should be aware that they are much harder to fly (unless you some sort of electronic stability control system). The flybar system helps control in windy conditions that is lost whey you go flybarless.


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... BTS
05-17-2007 Over year old.
 
 
borneobear
Senior Heliman
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

Yup. I've got the AP2000i on the bird. Its basically an up-right stabalizer (doesn't work when doing inverted flight).
I've learned that adding two GY201 + the AP2000i will make a very stable flying bird minus flybar (only upright tough).

Only thing is, how does one mod the Swift head to go flybarless?
Anyone??
05-17-2007 Over year old.
 
 
hedgebird
Senior Heliman
Location: New Canaan, 06840 CT, USA & Copenhagen, Denmark

Was this done yet, I also have a lot of gyros begging to be used for something :-)

Cheers,
Christian

AMA 881220 2 x Swift16 (one Flybarless), 3 x TREX600, TREX450
05-23-2007 Over year old.
 
 
nivlek
rrProfessor
Location: Norfolk England

Quote 
how does one mod the Swift head to go flybarless?

Ummm , remove the flybar .

At the end of the day , it gets dark .
05-23-2007 Over year old.
 
 
borneobear
Senior Heliman
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

Wish it was that simple nivlek.

Nope. No info yet on Swift going flybarless. Will post pictures if I finally do this on my own.
05-23-2007 Over year old.
 
 
laughingstill
Key Veteran
Location: Gainesville, Fl, USA

Wheelhaus has one. Pm him and I am sure he will help...Ron

3DMP-E, Logo 6003D, Logo103D Carbon and Trex 450se Flyin Firefighter
05-23-2007 Over year old.
 
 
borneobear
Senior Heliman
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

PM sent.
05-23-2007 Over year old.
 
 
hedgebird
Senior Heliman
Location: New Canaan, 06840 CT, USA & Copenhagen, Denmark

Yeah, I also want to know how to mod the Swift head for flying w/o the bar

AMA 881220 2 x Swift16 (one Flybarless), 3 x TREX600, TREX450
05-23-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Wheelhaus
Veteran
Location: Denver

Modding the head is the easy part. Just use the long links to connect the swash directly to the grips, and then use the washout base to act as a "swash driver". Since the washout links aren't supported at both ends (there's no more flybar link) the washout base will flop up and down on the main shaft. To prevent this, you'll need to affix the washout base to the main shaft so it doesn't move freely anymore. Without this, the upper swash ring isn't being forced to rotate with the main shaft, so it falls out of phase instantly.

I would post a pic but the GF has the camera, and she is in Florida right now. ):

I cut the unused arm off the washout links and drilled a couple holes through the excess meat for some screws to fix it to the main shaft. This allows the bast to remain fixed to the shaft, but the washout links keep the swash phasing in check.

I did more to help the flight characteristics, but that stuff is really hard to explain without a camera to show you guys pictures...

Mikado's head is simply another way of doing this. The links directly connect the swash to the grips, however they use a "cage" to push against the links, thus causing the swash to rotate in-phase.


The correct phase for a 2-blade head is just like it is with the flybar, exactly 90°.

..........
Dave
05-25-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Wheelhaus
Veteran
Location: Denver

Also, you'll need to reduce throws by approx 50%. With a flybar, the swash typically has control of 50% of blade pitch, the flybar typically has the other 50%. The Swift uses a 50/50 Bell Hiller ratio... Without the flybar, the swash has direct 100% control, meaning it's effective control throw is doubled.

To reduce this throw, it's most easily done from the Tx... However, reducing throws mechanically will retain full resolution of each channel while also effectively doubling torque and holding power of the servos (if the horns are half the length as before)...

..........
Dave
05-25-2007 Over year old.
 
 
aerton
Veteran
Location: Longueuil, QC, Canada

Wheelhaus,

Thanks for the info.

What's the main benefit in going flybarless that you have found?

Dan
05-25-2007 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Wheelhaus
Veteran
Location: Denver

this is the same thing I posted on RCGroups:

Increased stability around center. The gyros make small corrections that the eye cannot detect. Since the flybar limitations are removed, the swash has roughly twice the effective throw, so the head can utilize more substantial cyclic deflections for faster flip/roll rates or massive collective ranges for incredible pop maneuvers.

More finite accuracy of tunability far beyond any mechanical head adjustments. You think your flybar'd heli flies like it's on rails? You have no idea.

Less drag so the blades perform more accurately and there's less lost in translation. The linkages that connect to the flybar mechanism can develop lots of slop and cause strange interactions and unintended movement simply from flex and movement. A V-Bar head uses direct swash-grip links, there's NO slop and NO delay (unless a delay or softness has been so programmed).

The V-Stabi in particular has something no other currently available system does, the dual pitot-tubed air pressure sensor. Normally, the advancing blade generates excessive lift, and gyroscopic procession means that blades effect is felt 90° later on a standard 2-blade head. So, this makes the heli very pitchy, even with a single gyro on the elevator axis. The air sensor mimics the effect of the flybar in FFF. In FFF the flybar disc is being blown "downward" due to the head's angle of attack into the oncoming wind. This prevents the pitchyness that would otherwise be present. The air sensor is fully adjustable and is proportional to the pressure difference front and aft. The higher pressure that is felt, the more the swashplate is tilted into that direction, making the blades tilt into the wind much the same way the flybar forces the blades to tilt into the wind to maintain stability.

At first I didn't want the air sensor and thought it was useless until I installed. Now 100% full-pitch high speed passes are really fun and the heli is still smooth and predictable.

My Swift is FAST in FFF and extremely smooth, it shows zero signs of pitchyness far better than even heavy paddles, yet it still flips and rolls super quickly and feels very nimble and accurate much like lightweight paddles feel without sacrificing hover stability or handling in windy conditions.

This is from Eco8gator on RCG, all points I also agree with:
Advantages:

Quote 
*Less Parts(potentially less slop)
*Less Drag
*Can achieve a higher cyclic rate(than you could with flybar) but have a more stable center
*Less Weight
*Longer flight times
*Could turn down your HS and still have the same authority you had with a flybar

..........
Dave
05-25-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Wheelhaus
Veteran
Location: Denver

Oh yeah, and it looks WAY cooler...

..........
Dave
05-25-2007 Over year old.
 
 
borneobear
Senior Heliman
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

Pictures Dave. Pictures!!

And Thanks.
05-25-2007 Over year old.
 
 
aerton
Veteran
Location: Longueuil, QC, Canada

Very interesting, thanks.

Dan
05-25-2007 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Wheelhaus
Veteran
Location: Denver

I know I know!! I keep putting it off... But, next week we won't have any more out of state weddings to go to, we'll be completely finished moving into our new home, we'll both be back home, and I'll finally have the camera again! >cue trumpets< lol

..........
Dave
05-25-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Ben-T-Spindle
Elite Veteran
Location: Central Illinois

Is it possible to make a good flying flybarless Swift without all that expensive electronics? I tried converting another helicopter several years ago and it flew like crap.

I like to try new things but won’t spend money on fancy electronics and gyros. If it needs all that make it fly well there must be something wrong with the basic concept. The stock Swift is a great 3D helicopter right out of the box.

This hobby doesn’t need more expensive helicopters – we need good flying less expensive helicopters that don’t cost a fortune when they crash. Crashing $1000 worth of extra electronics is not my idea of having fun.

Am I missing something – or what


.

... BTS
05-25-2007 Over year old.
 
 
aerton
Veteran
Location: Longueuil, QC, Canada

I don't know. I think it's all for fun.

If it wasn't for the costs I would go flybarless as well. I guess in a year or so the prices will go down. But then again, flybar also has it's beauty, in a sense that a mechanical thingy hanging there stabilizes the helicopter in flight, it's quite a fascinating thing.
And it's fun to put weights on it and see how the model reacts differently. The only issue I have with my flybar, is in forward flight direction the model has a tiny rolling left attitude, basically in any flight direction it has like 90o CCW rolling attitude. My guess was that the flybar is just a bit too long for the 550 fai stable blades. Does anybody know a source where the flybar's lenght/paddle sizes/weight relationship with the blades is explained other than a basic stuff?
05-25-2007 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
borneobear
Senior Heliman
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

Hey Dave? Is your gf back yet??

05-27-2007 Over year old.
 
 
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