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Computer Flight Simulators > iVol is Here! Quick review.
 
 
JasonD
Heliman
Location: san diego

Well, what can I say I'm a sucker for new gadgets, so I upgraded my parallel dongle thing for the IVol. Looking forward to getting it in, will let you know how it feels. I also bought G3 so I'll se what all the fuss is about. Pelos thanks for the honest feedback.

jason
05-01-2007 Over year old.
 
 
gottahaveit
New Heliman
Location: uk

hi pelos,

i am new to this forum. a friend told me about it on my other forum and i decided to pay a visit. i am not new to r/c therefore i know what i feel about aspects of this hobby. what else is there to know about the reflex ivol tx/controller thingy?

just because i dont like something and speak my mind, does that mean i am a fake forum member?

looks like ive found a really friendly forum!
05-02-2007 Over year old.
 
 
nheather
Veteran
Location: Horsham, West Sussex, UK

@Pelos

Personally the iVol doesn't appeal for me but I do have a couple of genuine questions.

My questions are concerned with the future use of iVol and how it will be transformed into a fully-functional transmitter.

Q1 - Looking at your iVol, is there any obvious hatch/opening/space/connector where you can see the radio frequency module being fitted.

Q2 - Does the iVol today have a battery. If not can you see any hatch/opening or space for a battery and charging socket.

Looking at the pictures on the Reflex website, it doesn't look like there is any arrangements for these but I thought that as you have a real one at your hands you would be able to give your views.

Cheers,

Nigel
05-02-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Pelos
Senior Heliman
Location: Bizkaia (Spain)

Q1: Yes. Not visible in the photos I made. Will try to post next monday. There is a connector with a black rubber cover in the bottom of the mid section (where the screen is). So I guess the module will fit between the "wings" or "legs" (how to call them?) and maybe partially at the back (the rubber grips are wider than the plastic body). The whole thing would have then a more "traditional" transmitter look. There's a photo of the inside circuit and screen (without plastic body) in the reflex site.

What I don't know is how the module will be fixed to the iVol (I see no atachment points other than the connector itself), and where will be the antenna. I guess we will have to wait to see how it all goes.

Q2: From what I can remember, the battery will be in the module. For sim operation it feeds from the USB port. The iVol is off until you start reflex, when the screen turns on. No battery in the controler itself. It has two "doors" at the back of the switches to allow for soldering the new ones you add. I didn't have the oportunity to take the front covers off, but as soon as I can I'll post more photos of both the back and front. The screws are of "star" type, so the hex screwdriver provided to set gimbal springs, etc. does not work for this.

Some more info:
For now I keep the screen leds (4 yellow/orange) off and the screen is read well indoors. Did not try it outside under the sun light to see how the screen performs in field conditions with and without leds on.

I use often the upper buttons for start/stop simulation, but almost never use the option for selecting models/scenes from the iVol. Mainly for the great number of models I have is way faster to use the mouse. For sceneries (I haven't copied the custom ones I had to the new version) works better.

One switch (the right side one) seems to be fixed in the iVol programming. Both two switches that come as standard work, but I only see one when using the menu option for detecting switches. Both are 2 position switches.
For the sim I use the right rotary knob to set gyro sens for helis and for flaps in the case of airplanes. I use the left rotary knob to actuate landing gears in both helis and airplanes. I use the right switch for autorotation and the left one is unused.
When they are available and you can program the iVOl, I feel almost mandatory to buy and fit more switches (for different flying modes...). Don't know if other brand's switches will work with iVol.

In my iVol the left gimbal vertical friction and ¿ratchet? seem to actuate more at low gimbal position than at high position, so the feeling is not perfect. The friction cannot hold the gimbal in the upper position, but may be just that I didn't manage to set it right. I have it now without any spring action, friction or ratchet.

Is there a life outside the sim?
05-02-2007 Over year old.
 
 
FAA
Senior Heliman
Location: MIlford CT

Reflex really blew it on this one.

I would like to know what market/prodcut survey they did to come up with such a design. And why go away from the concept of using the same controller you fly with ? That was the whole idea.

Great software but what was going through your minds with the controller ????
05-06-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Pelos
Senior Heliman
Location: Bizkaia (Spain)

I guess they have made a bet. They can win or loose, but i liked the idea from the first time I read what Reflex was going to bring out. So I made my own bet too with their product.
The design is not perfect, but not as bas ad it may seem by the photos, and with the transmitter module attached sure will have a more traditional look. I'm beginning to feel really comfortable with it and only wonder how would I manage to actuate the optional switches if they were installed. Their positions dont seem very handy. I will install all them ass soon as they're available, although they won't be of any use until the next "steps" are available.

Their idea is not using your regular transmitter for the simulator, but use the simulator controller to fly your models. It may sound strange to many who alredy have a transmitter, but think about the people that is just beginning this hobby, and iVol has a market there: they can buy a simulator, with a controller cheaper than most decent transmitters, and continue using the same controller later to fly their models buying just the transmitting module/receiver for it.

I'm only speculating here, but I think Reflex team's idea is this:
You use the computer to program the transmitter (mixes, functions, switches...) instead of doing it directly in the transmitter.
This has two advantages that I can see:
1- you don't have to buy a very expensive transmitter like the wonderful ones from futaba. They are expensive because they have an advanced programming interface integrated into them, while the iVol programming interface will be a software in your PC, so the hardware in the iVol itserf can be more "simple" and therefore, cheaper. And you can still, in theory, have the same or even better funtions.
2-If you think just a little about it, the flexibility that keeping the programation out of the transmitter itself brings is (or can be) unlimited. Taking it to the limit(I'm again speculating here), you could define not only mixes, functions... but even the number of channels to use, the signal encoding method... Of course, for that the receiver must be programmable just like the iVol.
Again I repeat that I'm speculating. don't know if any of the things I imagine as posibilities will be really possible with the module/receiver they have announced for this summer.
I think that is what is going through their minds (there's a video of Wolfgang in the Nuremberg thread where he explains their "vision" )

Is there a life outside the sim?
05-06-2007 Over year old.
 
 
nheather
Veteran
Location: Horsham, West Sussex, UK

@Pelos

I can visualise what Reflex are trying to do and respect the inovation that they are trying to bring into the hobby.

However, I maintain that it is a very brave move, especially for a small company like Reflex.

I also fear for early investors like yourself because Reflex may not be able to develop the iVol further even if they wanted too.

My thoughts are this;

(i) iVol isn't receiving a great response. Reflex have to win its customers over on its concept, looks, that good things will come with future upgrades and that it is replacing a controller that most customers have already (their transmitters). I don't think Reflex are winning this battle.

(ii) If iVol doesn't sell well now, then the financial burden could hit Reflex hard. In addition to a shrinking sim market share (more simulators out there and most fliers already have a sim) if Reflex can't recover the iVol investment then they made find themselves in severe financial trouble (maybe cause the business to fail).

(iii) Imagine we are in the future and iVol is available with all the upgrades. We already know that the iVol is 100 euros above the cost of the SlimStick. I can't imagine the required extras (transmitter module, battery, charger, switches) will be less than 100 euros. So we have a controller/transmitter that is at least 200 euros (probably more). This is moving into the range of a Spektrum DX7 (personally, I would rather have a SlimStick and a Spektrum DX7) so I doubt that the arguments that going iVol will lead to a cheaper transmitter are going to materialise.

My overall concern is that Reflex have bitten off too much and that resultant financial pressures will prevent them from doing well in the bussiness and prevent them from developing the iVol (and possibly software upgrades) any further.

Cheers,

Nigel
05-06-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Pelos
Senior Heliman
Location: Bizkaia (Spain)

Nigel, I see your points. I just hope that never happens, and I've made my part. We'll see where this all ends...

Is there a life outside the sim?
05-06-2007 Over year old.
 
 
hootowl
Elite Veteran
Location: Garnet Valley, Pa.

I played with this at Toledo. I have Reflex but not the controller. The controller is really slick. I love the ability to set up quickly and change anything, right from the controller.

I want to die like my grandfather - peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming like the rest in the car.
05-06-2007 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
nheather
Veteran
Location: Horsham, West Sussex, UK

Quote 
Nigel, I see your points. I just hope that never happens, and I've made my part. We'll see where this all ends...

I agree - I hope it works out fine.

It's a brave and innovative idea but I just can't help thinking its a big investment for a small company.

Cheers,

Nigel
05-06-2007 Over year old.
 
 
RotorheadBob
Senior Heliman
Location: Wash DC Metro Area

Disappointed at Toledo

Though the iVol struck me as an unusual system when I watched the videos Mark took at the Toy Show in Germany, I still wanted to see what it was about at the Toledo Show, especially since I bought XTR a few years back.

I tried asking the guy at the booth about an upgrade (was not Jeff, he would have answered the question), but he was giving me some grief about how I had the wrong version of XTR or some such thing. He seemed annoyed by my questions. So I never bothered asking to test fly it.

So some questions:

Is XTR a worthwhile simulator? What is the current version? Do I need new hardware to interface with my PC? I bought XTR when it was brand new, and never upgraded the s/w or the h/w. Is the iVol considered an upgrade to XTR? Is it a separate product that works with XTR? One last thing, I'm happy with G3.5, any reason I should consider switching or flying both?
05-06-2007 Over year old.
 
 
nheather
Veteran
Location: Horsham, West Sussex, UK

@RotorheadBob

Yes XTR is a worthwhile simulator - up there with the best.

I consider that there are two interfaces - the new SlimStick/iVol and the old interface.

The old interface can actually be found in two forms. The original wired interface and the newer USB stick type. Slightly differing mechanical design but identical electrically and in function.

The old interface supports all software versions upto 5.03.

The latest interface is available as the SlimStick (similar concept to old interface - use your own Tx) and the iVol (controller and promised to be more in the future).

Both the SlimStick and the iVol run the very latest version 5.04. This version has support for the new hardware and adds a couple of new aircraft and scenery - otherwise it adds very little to 5.03.

The big change is that going forward, software upgrades will only be supported on the new hardware (iVol and SlimStick).

In summary

Software versions upto 5.03 - old interface
Software verion 5.04 and beyond - new SlimStick and iVol.

This means that if you want to keep upgrading your software beyond 5.03 then you must 'trade in' your old interface for either a SlimStick or an iVol.

Would I 'trade in' yet? Personally, I don't think 5.04 offers enough over 5.03 to justify - instead I would wait to see what the later software versions bring and decide then.

Cheers,

Nigel
05-06-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Pelos
Senior Heliman
Location: Bizkaia (Spain)

I'm uploading some more photos. The hollow gimbal sticks, the connector for the future module, the back service doors, some with and without leds on...
Sorry for the quality, I didnt manage to get the focus right at short distances.

Is there a life outside the sim?
05-07-2007 Over year old.
 
 
JasonD
Heliman
Location: san diego

I ordered te Ivol and I got an email from Wolfgang saying its going to be three to four weeks before they ship it out. So it seems that the demand is outstripping their supply.

Jason
05-07-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Toolman
Senior Heliman
Location: London

Does the Ivol come with a new version of Reflex?
Do you need to use Ivol to keep up to date?

Final question, does reflex have blade noise yet?
05-07-2007 Over year old.
 
 
nheather
Veteran
Location: Horsham, West Sussex, UK

@Toolman

See above.

Yes - iVol comes with version 5.04

The SlimStick (new version of the Transmitter interface) also comes with 5.04

You need either iVol or SlimStick to take advantage of versions 5.04 and above.

The old style interface WILL NOT work with 5.04 or future versions.

So if you want to take advantage of 5.04 and above you will need to 'trade in' your old interface for a SlimStick or an iVol.

5.04 does not add blade noise - Reflex have said this will feature in a furture release in the Summer along with multiplayer - we will have to wait and see.

5.04 adds support for the new hardware and a couple of extra planes and scenery - no other functional updates.

Cheers,

Nigel
05-07-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Pistol_Pete
Elite Veteran
Location: Tampa Bay non-Buccaneer

Quote 
I'm happy with G3.5, any reason I should consider switching or flying both?

you guys comparing one sim to another miss the whole point...they all practically teach you the same thing...control. Now, how accurate it is, is another issue. Of course, if you are into competitions I can see the nitty picky part of this...otherwise...keep practicing with what you have.

I think this ivol is innovative especially with its open programming and PC interface. Sure its hard to accept a new design...but bottom line its a matter of taste and common sense. It seems that it will struggle with us old farts but most likely will appeal to the "video" game generation.

Best of luck!

<><>...the lunatic is in my head...<><>
05-08-2007 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Pelos
Senior Heliman
Location: Bizkaia (Spain)

[Edited] Corrections to some of my own comments:
- "One switch (the right side one) seems to be fixed in the iVol programming."
I looked better in the menu and the second switch (the one I didn't see in the "Switch setting" menu) is the SW6, wich is out of the screen and can be seen and configured by scrolling down. My fault.

- I reread the pdf with specifications that's published in the reflex web site, and there is a photo of the back of the iVol that shows where the iVol Live (transmitting module) is attached to the main body: there are 4 little holes in the back of the screen portion of the iVol that have metal threaded inside. They are for fixing the module. so at least part of the module goes centered behind the iVol, and I guess the antenna will go up from there.

Thinking yesterday (I only practice thinking every two or three days ) I wondered what would be the policy of Reflex incase you want to have a "backup" iVol, like many people do (for competitions...). Having the interface for the simulator integrated in the iVol the only way to have two iVols I'm afraid that will be to purchase the whole product (iVol+Reflex) twice (in fact, I have yet the old interface; I ordered the whole product, so for me would be a matter of upgrading the old interface to have another iVol if i need it).

Wouldn't have been better to use the iVol the same as a third party transmitter (using the slimstick as interface/license control)? That would permit to buy the iVol only without fear of people using it for the simulator without a license. Maybe that would introduce problems for the iVol proggramming from the PC?

Could you guys from Reflex answer this question? I know I can e-mail, but I think it is info that will be of interest in the forum, and I don't like to publish private answers to private questions. Thanks in advance.

Is there a life outside the sim?
05-08-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Pelos
Senior Heliman
Location: Bizkaia (Spain)

Edited last post with more info.

Is there a life outside the sim?
05-10-2007 Over year old.
 
 
nheather
Veteran
Location: Horsham, West Sussex, UK

Interesting point about a spare transmitter - wouldn't be a major issue to me being a one transmitter guy but I could see it being a problem for some.

If I understand your description of the module right it doesn't sound great to me - having a lump bolted on underneath.

But my overwhelming issue is wether I would entrust $1000 of heli to a Reflex transmitter.

I know it's a little harsh to judge Reflex Tx when it hasn't been released yet - it's just that my only experience of Reflex hardware is less than perfect. I have always managed to get my interface to work but I have had my fair share of 'please connect your transmitter' messages.

Cheers,

Nigel
05-10-2007 Over year old.
 
 
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