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e-Electric Conversions > UK XLV electric conversion

hazchem88
Senior Heliman
Location: W.Mids UK

Hi
After some discussions with Speedbird (perry) about his impressive XLV e-conversion, and after a year of toying with other ideas I have decided to build one too.
Speedbird and I have shared a few private emails, but I'm starting this thread to help any others and share Speedbird's expert knowledge.
Most details are covered in Perry's thread here
http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t303021p1/

I am going for the same set-up since his method is tried and tested. There is no point in reinventing the wheel.

I have a few questions Perry or anyone else might like to help me with.
I have some stuff left over from another project which should do the job:

Questions/
I have a set of S9206 servos, plus S9254.

1/Can I use the S9254 for the tail, or just stick with my S9206s all round?

Also have a PowerJazz, and GY401.

2/Will Deans connectors be sufficient to connect the batteries to the ESC, or should I use something that can accept more current? Looks like Perry's motor is hardwired to the ESC. Is this best or should I use connectors between the 2?

I am going to sell my boxed and new pletty HP370 (any good offers?) and get the 40-4 that Perry uses.

3/What is a Emcotec powerbox (Perry lists this in his thread). I did a quick web search and couldn't find much info. What is it and do I need it?

I will order the XLV soon and no doubt I will have some additional questions at the time.

Any help to the above questions and any future ones appreciated. I'll up date this thread with pics and info when they become available!

thanks

04-11-2007 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

hazchem88
Senior Heliman
Location: W.Mids UK

Perry, Would 4 of these batteries also make do instead of the EVO6S1P?

TP4500-6S : Thunderpower 22.2v 4500mah Extreme Pack (22-50C)
New Thunderpower Extreme Series, 22.2v 4500mah, 20C constant, 40C burst, 90A constant, 180A burst. Ideal for the T-Rex 600, as used by the Szabo brothers.

Spec looks no less than the Evos.
I know they have a little less capacity, but I have a TP balancer (+charger) it would save me converting the balancing leads and also £80!

04-11-2007 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Speedbird370
Heliman
Location: Sweden

Quote
Questions/ I have a set of S9206 servos, plus S9254. 1/Can I use the S9254 for the tail, or just stick with my S9206s all round? Also have a PowerJazz, and GY401.

How strong are these servos ?
Strong servos is a must for this big bird,

I use 4 of Futabas 9351 for the swash and a faster 9451 with a GY401 for tailrotor control

Quote
2/Will Deans connectors be sufficient to connect the batteries to the ESC, or should I use something that can accept more current? Looks like Perry's motor is hardwired to the ESC. Is this best or should I use connectors between the 2? I am going to sell my boxed and new pletty HP370 (any good offers?) and get the 40-4 that Perry uses.

Can the Deans take up to 50 constant Amps ?
if they can it should be fine

I use 6mm round gold connectors between motor and esc for easy removing of the motor

Quote
3/What is a Emcotec powerbox (Perry lists this in his thread). I did a quick web search and couldn't find much info. What is it and do I need it?

see these links

http://rc-electronic.com/html/engli...v_ldo_715w.html

http://rc-electronic.com/html/engli...psi_rv_ldo_184w

/Perry

04-11-2007 Over year old.

Speedbird370
Heliman
Location: Sweden

Quote

Yes I think so

a little shorter flight times should be expected
but other than that I think they can do the job too

/Perry

04-11-2007 Over year old.

hazchem88
Senior Heliman
Location: W.Mids UK

Vario recommend using the S9206 in all of the kits, inc. XLV, so I guess they must be OK!
Thanks for the additional info.

I'll have to look up Deans power handling. I know it's high current, but I cannot remember how high. I think it is 60A possible max. Any one else know Deans current ratings?

I have emailed about 5 euro shops about the elusive actro 40-4 motor. Hopefully someone can sell me one!

04-11-2007 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

hazchem88
Senior Heliman
Location: W.Mids UK

Emcotec powerbox : So what I read it is somesort of BEC / power distribution system for you servos and receiver?

Is this needed or just an extra level of quality?

04-11-2007 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Speedbird370
Heliman
Location: Sweden

Quote
Emcotec powerbox : So what I read it is somesort of BEC / power distribution system for you servos and receiver? Is this needed or just an extra level of quality?

It feeds your servos with 5,5 volts of power from 2 separate 7,4 V LiPo:s making them faster and stronger without risk to damage them, also the servo signals go thru opto-filters and amplifiers making ferrit rings unnecessary,

I see it as an extra level of security

digital servos use a lot of mAh:s ! !
and need good power supply

/Perry

04-11-2007 Over year old.

hazchem88
Senior Heliman
Location: W.Mids UK

I got a price for the ACtro 40-4 motor
AERO7002/24 Actro motor 40-4 £95.00
approx. 5 days delivery
from sales@gliders.uk.com

I am shocked how cheap that appears to be. I expected the motor to cost me at least as much as my Pletty HP370 - because I am using the 40-4 to fly a larger heli!

I just hope this is the right motor when it arrives!

04-12-2007 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

hazchem88
Senior Heliman
Location: W.Mids UK

OK I thought 95GBP for the 40-4 motor was too cheap. I was given the wrong price. The actual UK price should be around £260.
Germany and Switzerland are quoting around 195GBP, so I haggled the UK dealer to a comfortable 205GBP

04-12-2007 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

hazchem88
Senior Heliman
Location: W.Mids UK

It might seem a bit backward, but I have just about all I need (except the XLV!) to build a UK version of Perry's electric XLV.

I have the main blades coming tomorrow from Vario UK,
I have 4 TP 4500mah 6S lipos on order (I got a good deal from my Chinese heli dealer contact),
I have Powerjazz ESC, GY401, Rx and S9206 servos left over from another project.
actro 40-4 motor on order from www.gliders.uk.com
Need to sort out a BEC and rx batteries.

6S flight pack works out well - I can share the cost and also use these with my Trex 600.
Also Rx lipos will probably be 3S - so I can use these with my Trex 450.

I had trouble finding big connectors (6mm) for high current draw.
Only place I could find in the UK was http://www.puffinmodels.com/pricelist_batteries.html
who do 5.5mm but can also get 6mm.
I was planning to use Deans ultra connectors but rated at 50A.

So soon I have to spend the big money and buy the XLV itsself!

04-17-2007 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Speedbird370
Heliman
Location: Sweden

Sounds great hazchem88,

Looking forward to see the progress

/Perry

04-17-2007 Over year old.

hazchem88
Senior Heliman
Location: W.Mids UK

Which BEC?
How do I work out an approx. current draw for S9206 servos, receiver, GY401, and S9451 on the tail to fly my XLV.
Once I know the current draw, I can choose a BEC.
Futaba don't quote the servo power rating for their servos (as far as I can see).
anyone suggest a rough minimum BEC spec?

04-22-2007 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Speedbird370
Heliman
Location: Sweden

Quote
Which BEC? How do I work out an approx. current draw for S9206 servos, receiver, GY401, and S9451 on the tail to fly my XLV. Once I know the current draw, I can choose a BEC. Futaba don't quote the servo power rating for their servos (as far as I can see). anyone suggest a rough minimum BEC spec?

Hi hazchem88,

I recommend you not to use a BEC in your XLV,
if I remember correct the current draw is aprox 2,5 A
for the 9206 servos x 4 = 10 A
+ gyro and that powerful tailservo...
so 12 - 14 A draw...

maybe if you find a BEC that can go up to 20 A to give some headroom
otherwise it may get hot and stop working with loss of control

The little extra weight of a separate receiver accu
( or 2 for backup safety ) is well worth it in my opinion

Especially in a bird this big

/Perry

04-23-2007 Over year old.

hazchem88
Senior Heliman
Location: W.Mids UK

I am intending to use separate Lipos for the servos, 2 or 3S.
But I need something to step down the voltage to 5V, so I thought a BEC.
but 20A is high!
I will take another look at the ecmotec, but they are hard to find and expensive!

04-23-2007 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

hazchem88
Senior Heliman
Location: W.Mids UK

on your XLV,
did you use the Emcotec DPSI RV (approx 280E)?
that's quite pricey.

I am reading through the specifications of the other regulators (like the RV mini) but it looks like the DPSI RV is the only one that is up to the job for the XLV

04-23-2007 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

hazchem88
Senior Heliman
Location: W.Mids UK

Perry, I am a little confused!
I just looked through your pictures again.
In 1 picture it looks like you are using a DPSI RV mini 5(or6) - that's the picture where it is mounted at the end of the tail boom (heli end).
In a 2nd picture it looks like the big DPSI RV. That's the picture where the DPSI is laying on your table.

So which are you using?

04-23-2007 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Speedbird370
Heliman
Location: Sweden

Quote
Perry, I am a little confused! I just looked through your pictures again. In 1 picture it looks like you are using a DPSI RV mini 5(or6) - that's the picture where it is mounted at the end of the tail boom (heli end). In a 2nd picture it looks like the big DPSI RV. That's the picture where the DPSI is laying on your table. So which are you using?

At first I was planning on using the little DPSI RV mini 5 shown in one of the pics,
but as I decided to use 4 of the strong and power-hungry 9351 servos

at 3 A x 4 = 12 A on cyclic ( a lot of amps yes, but I have 120 lbs of force available to shift those massive main blades when I hit the pitch )

and the 9451 on the tail draws a bit to... then the gyro and receiver...
and as I had the big DPSI in storage from another project that’s on backburner right now, so I decided to go with that one instead because its higher A tolerance

Yes 280 Euro seems a lot but I have discovered the hard way over the years that taking shortcuts in this area and for example underestimate how much the servos really draw under load can end up costing you the aircraft,
and in the XLV size its a lot ! of money up there in the sky

I have 3 rules when I start a new project,

1. Selecting servos that are up to the job
2. Adequate power to all servos, receiver, gyro, etc...
3. And a motor that has plenty of power

With these 3 simple guidelines even a "brick" can fly

/Perry

04-23-2007 Over year old.

hazchem88
Senior Heliman
Location: W.Mids UK

I got the Actro 40-4 motor today.
I had a little shock becuase I couldn't find the motor shaft! But the whole case rotates instead.

I ordered the XLV yesterday

05-10-2007 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

hazchem88
Senior Heliman
Location: W.Mids UK

Took a while, but I finally received my XLV today.

You see them in pictures and you know they are big. But it is not until you are physically there with an XLV that you don't realise how truly enormous this heli is!

The canopy is so big you fell you could climb inside it!

I've started building the mechanics and all going smoothly so far

I just ordered an MS Composite 3 bladed head chinook - not sure why, I have enough to do with the XLV!

06-06-2007 Over year old.

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hazchem88
Senior Heliman
Location: W.Mids UK

OK - for anyone else wishing to do an XLV e-conversion, especially UK based, here are some of the parts I am using and where to get them.
They are not necessarily the optimum choice, but are adequate for my own personal flying style (very mild!).

So, in no particular order (it's just as it comes out of my brain!)....

Radio: Spektrum DX7.
Receiver: AR7000.
ESC: Power Jazz + Program card (from www.revolutionmodels.co.uk).
Receiver/servo batteries: 2x Thunder Power 2070mah 2 cell extreme (from midland helicopters).
Motor: Actro AERO7002.2 40-4 (from www.gliders.uk.com).
Prop adaptor: AERO7002.6 45mm/M8 (from Gliders).
FLight packs: 4x Thunder Power 6S1P extreme 4500mah.
4mm and 2.5mm silicone multistrand red and black cable to make up battery wiring looms (from www.overlander.co.uk).
Deans ultra connectors (off ebay).
Gyro: GY401.
Power supply/BEC: Emcotec DPSI RV (http://shop.rc-electronic.com/e-ven...da1cc292bbdc178).
Main servos 4xS9206.
tail servo: S9451.
Connectors for ESC/Motor/Batteries: I used 5.5mm barrel type (from http://www.puffinmodels.com).
Other bits and pieces: heatshrink, cable ties, strobe light(!), self-adhesive velcro, velcro straps.
Glue: these guys sell what Vario sell at a fraction of the price http://www.sylmasta.com/acatalog/UHU_Adhesives.html
Data logger: I have a micropower data logger I will probably fit (http://www.rc-log.co.uk/rclog/).
I also used a servo extension lead to wire the ESC to the receiver (and it has a ferrite inline).

I thinks that's about it.

The only other thing is the custom made motor mount, which I have had made and fits perfectly. I just need to make up the adaptor to fit the clutch/pulley to the motor prop.

I will take a load of pictures soon.

If I have missed anything off or anyone has any questions, let me know. The pictures (when they come!) should answer most questions.

Thanks to Speedbird (Perry) who inspired much of the design.

I hope to have this flying in a few weeks so I will let you all know how it flies (should be pretty good as it is almost identical to Perry's).

07-04-2007 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

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