RunRyder - Brushless DD Tail w/ GY401

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e-E-Flite Blade CP CX 400-3D > Brushless DD Tail w/ GY401 - Sweet! (Video)

Splatcat
Senior Heliman
Location: Shandon, CA USA

That's the one I am using. Had to give it a little pinch to make it snug on the Ammo 4110.

Dear God, please let it set down just as it took off. Amen.

10-01-2007 06:14 PM

22crd
Heliman
Location: Bangkok,Thailand

to Micro-Maniac

can you please
get more parameter details of setup and config menu into DX7 with
Blade CP mod BL motor front and tail with GY401 by you.

Thankyou

Rosso

03-16-2008 07:13 AM

Micro-Maniac
Elite Veteran
Location: Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

I listed all my components at the beginning of this thread which are all hyperlinked to where they can be purchased

I'll post my DX7 programming but things like channel reversing sub-trim and swash mix values may all be different for your particular heli and servos

This is for my Blade CP Pro with HS-55 servos GY401 gyro 3x2 DD tail prop TP1320 Lipo and separate/combined 2 switch (HOLD & AUX2) main & tail disabling

Code

[SYSTEM MENU]
[MODEL SELECT]
 SELECT
   MODEL  3  BLADE CP
             HELI  DSM
 
[MODEL NAME]
   MODEL  3     HELI
     DSM     <BLADE CP>
 
[TYPE SELECT]
   MODEL  3   BLADE CP
    HELI
 
[MODEL RESET]
 MODEL  3  HELI    DSM
       DATA RESET
 INTEG-T
       00:00:00
 
[TRAINER]
      INH
 
[THRO RECOVERY]
      INH
 
[INPUT SELECT]
  AUX2       GEAR
   AUX2       GEAR
 
[SWASH TYPE]
   3 SERVOS
   120°
 
[FUNCTION MENU]
[D/R & EXP]
      POS-0/1
 AILE             ELEV             RUDD
 EXP   + 25%      EXP   + 25%      EXP   + 15%
 D/R   100%       D/R   100%       D/R   100%
 
[AUTO D/R EXP]
      NORM INH
      ST-1 INH
      ST-2 INH
      HOLD INH
 
[REVERSING SW]
 REV.      4  6
 NORM 1 2 3  5  7
 
[SUB TRIM]
    THRO      AILE
       0      L 50
    ELEV      RUDD
    D 44      L 44 (L 50 for 4.5x3 prop)-(gone back to 0 for better hh performance)
    GEAR      PIT.
       0         0
    AUX2
       0
 
[TRAVEL ADJUST]
    THRO        AILE
   H 100%      L 100%
   L 100%      R 100%
    ELEV        RUDD
   D 100%      L 100%
   U 100%      R 100%
    GEAR        PIT.
   +  45%      H 100%
   -  45%      L 100%
    AUX2
   + 100%
   - 100%
 
[SWASH MIX]
   3 SERVOS
            AILE + 70%
   120°     ELEV + 70%
            PIT. + 30%
   EXP INH
 
[THRO HOLD]
   HOLD POS.   0.0%
   SW:RUDD D/R
 
[THRO CURVE]
     POINT-L POINT-1 POINT-2 POINT-3 POINT-H   EXP
 NORM   0.0%   60.0%   80.0%   80.0%   80.0%     ON
 ST-1  90.0%   90.0%   90.0%   90.0%   90.0%     ON
 ST-2 100.0%  100.0%  100.0%  100.0%  100.0%     ON
 
[PITCH CURVE]
     POINT-L POINT-1 POINT-2 POINT-3 POINT-H   EXP
 NORM   0.0%   25.0%   50.0%   75.0%  100.0%    OFF
 ST-1   0.0%   25.0%   50.0%   75.0%  100.0%    OFF
 ST-2   0.0%   25.0%   50.0%   75.0%  100.0%    OFF
 HOLD   0.0%   25.0%   50.0%   75.0%  100.0%    OFF
 
[REVO MIX]
 NORM       STNT
  UP    0%   UP    0%
  DN    0%   DN    0%
 
[PROG.MIX1]
    INH
 
[PROG.MIX2]
   AUX2> RUDD
     RATE: +100%
              0%
     SW:HOLD
     OFFSET:   0
 
[PROG.MIX3]
    INH
 
[TIMER]
 MODEL  3
      DOWN-T
        7:00

03-16-2008 07:06 PM

22crd
Heliman
Location: Bangkok,Thailand

to Micro-Maniac

Thank , You are great.

03-17-2008 05:48 PM

Skarn
Senior Heliman
Location: Pasadena, MD

Micro,

Why did you put 50 in for rudder trim? Should I do this with my brushless tail setup?

Thanks,
Skarn

03-17-2008 06:34 PM

Micro-Maniac
Elite Veteran
Location: Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

That's for zero rotation in rate mode - The GY401 centers itself to whatever pulse the radio is sending during initialization so it's possible to have zero rotation in both rate and HH mode with this gyro - I'm not sure I can tell if it makes a difference in HH mode with this heli but it holds still in rate mode anyways - My setup in ST-2 (3000rpm) took L 44 for the press-on 3x2 prop and L 50 for the 4.5x3 adapted prop (I guess 4.5x3 is slightly less efficient vs 3x2)

<edit> I've gone back to 0 rudder sub-trim which seems to yield better performance in HH mode

03-17-2008 06:47 PM

zaw
Senior Heliman
Location: Lebanon, NH - USA

I'm in!

As I spend a lot of time and money on this BladeCP/CP2. Enough to go buy a Trex 450 with some extra parts.

Yesterday accidental flipping Idle Up on ground caused boom strike and some how weaken my dual motor tail setup after reinstall of the boom. I 1 pair of motor left, I installed and, turn out that one motor is seize out of the box.
I have some GWD DD motors and 1320 props that never worked for me, They seems to only hold the tail on the ground. Heli spin counter clock wise in air. Turned up the gain on gyro, things get better but Motor died in 3 min of hover

I have Esky HH Gyro, Esky Brushed ESC.

I guess its time to go BL tail. Hopefully everything work with my Esky Gyro because I don't want to spend any more money on this heli.

BCP+CP2 mix Separates BL, DD-tail, HH //\\ HBK2 JGF 400 11T //\\ Friend's B400

03-19-2008 02:18 AM

tutelar-rc
Key Veteran
Location: Nobleton, Ontario - Canada

The Esky HH gyro should work OK for you. It isn't a GY401, but for this little heli it is OK - at least until you get into advanced 3D flying...

Happy Flying!

03-19-2008 01:11 PM

22crd
Heliman
Location: Bangkok,Thailand

How many tooth of pinion gear for the beat if i used Himax 2015 BL??
and if i used Medusa moter BL at tail, Gyro must set mode to degital right?
so for logitech 2100T if about setup it easy more than Futaba 401 right?

Thank you so much
am newone but love CP

03-30-2008 07:09 PM

Micro-Maniac
Elite Veteran
Location: Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

I'm using a 10T pinion on my 2015-4100 for 3000rpm head speed

Digital mode isn't necessary but is a lot better than analog so I recommend it

I think the GY401 is easier to setup - Just set the Limit pot to 100 - Delay to 0 - DIR to REV - DS to ON - And is less hassle to use sub-trim for zero rotation in rate mode if you choose

The 2100T you have to enter and go through the whole setup menu - Servo Speed - Rotate Rate - Direction - Limit both left and right - Then if you want to use sub-trim for zero rotation in rate mode it may prevent you from being able to access the setup menu without first removing the sub-trim

03-30-2008 07:22 PM

petez
New Heliman
Location: Lynnwood WA, USA

Micro-Maniac I am trying to go brushless on my Blade CP Pro as well as go seperates and incorporate a DX7, why not go the whole nine yards. First question is; looking at your pitch curves, as you throttle down are you not going full -ve on the pitch and driving the heli down? second question is; I have bought and installed the medusa motor that you recommended plus the prop, I have in my parts box a Colco g400 gyro, not the best but I figured that it would do for starters and hovering; my problem is that once the gyro initialises and I put full left rudder to arm the CC PHX10 ESC my tail motor spins up to high revs as I let the stick center and my gyro does not seem to be doing anything, I am using a DX7 with the AR6000 Rx. Any ideas or help would be really welcome as I am on my own here trying to work this out and am trying to learn about computer radios so if my questions seem to be a bit dumb please be patient.

04-08-2008 08:11 PM

Micro-Maniac
Elite Veteran
Location: Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

My pitch curves are symmetrical - Low stick = -10° Mid stick = 0° High stick = +10°
I do all my upright flying between mid and high stick and my inverted flying between mid and low stick - Hover pitch being about 1/4 stick for inverted and 3/4 stick for upright - In normal mode about the only time I put the stick below mid is while on the ground which the negative pitch pins the heli to the ground during spool up/down in breezy conditions

It's normal for the tail motor to run at neutral stick and in fact you may want it to do so to counter the torque of the main rotor for zero rotation at neutral stick - Also gyros usually behave differently on the ground from in the air - Try putting the heli into a hover to see if it behaves properly

At the bottom of my original post I listed 3 different mixes you can choose from for disabling the tail when you dont want it to run without having to hold left rudder (tied to throttle-hold to kill the tail rotor with the main rotor)

04-08-2008 08:22 PM

petez
New Heliman
Location: Lynnwood WA, USA

Thank you, I think that I understand somewhat, I can see your symmetrical pitch curve and the throttle curve. Am I correct in saying that at zero throttle your pitch is -10 at 1/4 Stick your pitch is approx -5 and 60% throttle and a half stick your pitch is zero and throttle 80%. Any further stick movement increases the pitch positive but the throttle stays at 80%.
Also after arming the tail ESC and letting the rudder stick zero the tail motor seems to be going full speed (it threw a tail rotor blade) and is a bit scary to say the least. Do you have any idea as to what I am doing wrong. Thank you in advance as this is really helpful in getting to understand what is happening.

04-08-2008 09:16 PM

Micro-Maniac
Elite Veteran
Location: Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Yes you described my normal mode throttle and pitch curve function - The reason I use flat throttle curves where the heli is flying is to reduce torque changes to make things easier on the tail

As for your tail problem I have no experience with the PHX10 - My TB9 is just plug-n-play - Wait for gyro to arm then full left rudder to arm the esc - This is old but may it can help you? http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/p2392534/
Because of bind settings the DX7 can play tricks during long negotiations

04-08-2008 09:30 PM

22crd
Heliman
Location: Bangkok,Thailand

to Micro-Maniac

for the paddle flybar
can i use stock paddles of Balde CP ???
or
it very need chang to MS Composit Hornet 3D Paddles ??

and it have another option?

Thankyou

Rosso

04-11-2008 01:33 PM

Micro-Maniac
Elite Veteran
Location: Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

You can keep the stock paddles if you want - Roll rate might be slightly slower than mine is all which is ok because mine is lightning fast and I don't even have my cyclics maxed out

04-11-2008 03:06 PM

eddo22
Senior Heliman
Location: agoura, ca

wow

Whatup Micro! You prolly don't remember me but I was very active in these blade cp and dd tail threads about a year ago when i first started in helis, with my blade cp pro.
I have since picked up a t-rex, and now have 2 dragonus' on the way. I've been more active in another forum lately, but coming back to RR i saw that this thread was still going...amazing!
It's awesome that you are still here, helping us all out. You are the man.
Thanks,
Ed

btw, i came back to rr cuz i posted my cpp up for sale. but, i think i've been inspired! expect more questions from me on the bl tail setup in the future.

ed g

04-18-2008 05:19 PM

22crd
Heliman
Location: Bangkok,Thailand

to Micro-Maniac

I just change new motor its Himax 4100kv but i see it not fit with the frame. how you mod its? or you have some pic for himax install on frame of Heli by more details.

thank you

04-25-2008 03:25 PM

Micro-Maniac
Elite Veteran
Location: Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

My Himax 2015-4100 fits just fine - Are you sure you don't have something other?

04-26-2008 06:53 AM

stebe
Senior Heliman
Location: Alberta

I have this little metal adapter I picked up at the lhs that goes between the motor and the frame.

04-26-2008 08:06 PM

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e-E-Flite Blade CP CX 400-3D > Brushless DD Tail w/ GY401 - Sweet! (Video)

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