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E-flite . Next D . Fast Lad Performance

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Radio - JR & Spektrum DSM > DX7/AR7000 Complete Lockout
 
 
fredmillard
Heliman
Location: Portland, Oregon

Folks,

While hovering my TRex 450SE about 15-feet off the deck, I experienced a temporary but complete lockout. I had no control whatsoever. Unfortunately by the time I regained control, I already crashed.

What if any experiences similiar to mine have others had? If so, what if anything can be done about it to avoid a similiar mishap in the future?

Thanks

Fred
02-13-2007 03:09 AM
 
 
JR-Spektrum
Heliman
Location: Champaign, IL

Fred,

During your "lockout" did the motor stop as well?

Paul
02-13-2007 04:17 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Eyefly
Veteran
Location: Charlotte, NC

I am curious too.
02-13-2007 12:18 PM
 
 
hrosee
Senior Heliman
Location: Richardson, Texas

I doubt a lockout. More like your BEC giving you problems.

Too many people ready to blame a lockout. I hope you don't assume that and really look into your system to see what really is wrong.

Last weekend my Raptor 50 engine dies at about 30 feet and she came to the ground. My first thought was the DX7 although I have 10 models flying on it and never a problem. I put the Raptor in the car and flew my Raptor 90. It was only it's 5th flight and you guessed it. The engine quit at 100 feet. I auto'd but still did some damage. Now here I am thinking it has to be the DX7. No way 2 engines quite back to back.

I packed all up and headed to the house. I looked at the Raptor 50 and found all the head screws had come loose on the engine causing it to go lean. Burnt a hole right through the pistion. New piston and ring installed this week and she flys great. Not a DX7 problem.

I found on the Raptor 90 which has a YS91 that in doing my first full power take-off I had the high speed needle to lean. I richened it up a few notches and see flys great also. Not a DX7 problem.

Moral of the story. Don't be so quick to blame the DX7 radio. If you do you may overlook the real cause of your mishap and have the same problem again........


DX6 & DX7
2 - Raptor 50's V2
TREX 450SE
Swift 16
TREX 500
TREX 600N
02-13-2007 01:31 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

Quote 
Now here I am thinking it has to be the DX7. No way 2 engines quite back to back.

That is the real problem with new stuff, people want to blame their problems on it. In your case, there was no way that the DX7 would have shut off both engines and you'd still have control to auto them down, but the first reaction is, "It must be the new radio". Really, we just have to realize that there is nothing magical or different about the DX7 from the stuff we've been flying except that the way the signal is transmitted is much more solid. It can't cause any problems that our current radios can't, but it solves a LOT of the issues that they do have.

I just know that sometime this summer, I'll hear one of the "experts" tell someone that the problems they are having with their plane/heli is because they are using the DX7, and invariably the fossil offering up that advice will have an Airtronics Vanguard or a Futaba gold box in their hands. People are afraid of new technology, even if it is the answer to their problems.


Nick Crego
I swear to God, I'll pistol whip the next guy that says Shenanigans
02-13-2007 02:13 PM
 
 
VEGASROBBI
Heliman
Location: LAS VEGAS, NEVADA-USA

DX7, Rex SE, HS65's, 401/9650, Align 35 esc and 430 motor.

My first radio, an AM MRC fully prportional in 1974(glitchmaster), then FM, FM dual conversion, PCM, PCM 1024 etc...

I must say I've had fewer glitches and hits with my Spektrum than any other.

My Rex always had an annoying twitch in hover, it was small, the tail would wag and the motor would hesitate. Of coarse it had too be the DX7?

I tried to address this glitch, I called Horizon - no known issue. I replaced the motor thinking RF - no go.

Recently after another sucessful flight I picked up my Rex and turned it over to disconnect the battery, the rotor spooled up to about hover RPM!

I looked at the Spektrum recievers and both were lit but I had no cyclic or motor control.

I turned off the transmitter thinking it would go into failsafe and stop the motor. Both lights on the recievers went out but the rotors kept spinning. I turned the transmitter back on, about one second later the reciever lights came on and I regained full control.

Not thinking too kindly of the DX7 I replaced it with a Berg 7p and Hitec Specktrum Tx, a combo I always had good luck with.

The glitching got worse! Frustrated I connected a tether cable tapped into the bec from the Align esc and hovered. What I saw was a distinct voltage drop which coincided with the glitch. Maybe the 401, digital servo, HS65's were too much for the esc/bec?

I replaced the Align esc with a CC35, end of all my problems.
02-13-2007 05:59 PM
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

It sounds like you didn't rebind the receiver after you set up your T-rex, so the throttle failsafe was never set properly. That coupled with a BEC that was allowing the voltage to drop created your problem.


Nick Crego
I swear to God, I'll pistol whip the next guy that says Shenanigans
02-13-2007 06:09 PM
 
 
VEGASROBBI
Heliman
Location: LAS VEGAS, NEVADA-USA

Thats a good point, this reciever came with my DX7 already bound, I assumed f/s was set to low throttle. Somthing we should check.
02-13-2007 06:36 PM
 
 
RCHeliJim
Key Veteran
Location: Orem, UT USA

You have to bind to each model before setup and again after everything is in its final setting. The receiver will not know what low throttle really is if you make changes during setup.

This is in the manual, for thsoe that read it



Go Fly, Have Fun!!
-Team Quick UK
-Team RCHeliMag
02-13-2007 06:38 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
cdrking
Elite Veteran
Location: Seattle

While everyone is defending the DX7 maybe you could help Fred find an answer to his situation.

Jeff

To hover is divine, the alternative is rather PLANE.
02-13-2007 06:40 PM
 
 
RCHeliJim
Key Veteran
Location: Orem, UT USA

Jeff - any input on his situation?

Heres some help:

I am guessing that either the ESC has an issue, or that the BEC (he does not state rather he is running a seperate or internal BEC) is not supplying a steady voltage to the receiver.

It appears that the Spektrum stuff is more sensitive to having a decent voltage supply to the RX than some of the FM stuff.

If fred does a search on this topic on this forum and the freak - there have been a few guys that have had this same scenario that have found the ESC/BEC to be the cause.

My first look would be at the ESC, but until Fred gets back with more info on his gear - we can only speculate.

BTW, my post about binding was to help "vegas" out - and any new guy reading this post to understand that they MUST rebind after setup to get the failsafe in the right position. This may save someone from a destroyed heli or injury.



Go Fly, Have Fun!!
-Team Quick UK
-Team RCHeliMag
02-13-2007 06:45 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

Quote 
While everyone is defending the DX7 maybe you could help Fred find an answer to his situation.

Why don't you give it a shot? There is really no info to go on. He's been asked for more details, and hasn't replied yet. If you can solve his problem from the info provided, you've got some serious skills.


Nick Crego
I swear to God, I'll pistol whip the next guy that says Shenanigans
02-13-2007 06:58 PM
 
 
Thomashome
Veteran
Location: West Sussex UK

I used to have the same problem with my original Trex and a Castle Creations P35, do anything too demanding and the speed controller would cut all power to everything. Best thing to do is put a Jazz on the Trex - never had any issues with my current set up.
02-13-2007 07:02 PM
 
 
cdrking
Elite Veteran
Location: Seattle

Quote 
Why don't you give it a shot?
Cuz I don't know squat about electrics or the DX7. I have a 600 and am considering a DX7 so I want to learn as much as possible about electrics and this new radio. BTW my 600 is still on the shelf begging me to finish it.

Yes I agree more info is needed.

Jeff

To hover is divine, the alternative is rather PLANE.
02-13-2007 07:11 PM
 
 
cdrking
Elite Veteran
Location: Seattle

I did have a Logo 10 at one time and that thing was possessed. It would shut down about once every two flights. I finally sold it.

So if for example the speed controller is faulty or gets hot it would cause this type of lockout?

Jeff

To hover is divine, the alternative is rather PLANE.
02-13-2007 07:14 PM
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

Yes, but it's not a lockout. It's the BEC shutting down or just dropping the voltage below the threshold where the receiver functions.


Nick Crego
I swear to God, I'll pistol whip the next guy that says Shenanigans
02-13-2007 07:15 PM
 
 
cdrking
Elite Veteran
Location: Seattle

Understood about the esc shutting down.

Could a faulty ESC cause a lockout with a 2.4 system?

Jeff

To hover is divine, the alternative is rather PLANE.
02-13-2007 07:18 PM
 
 
rstacy
Key Veteran
Location: Rochester, NY

Quote 
Yes, but it's not a lockout. It's the BEC shutting down or just dropping the voltage below the threshold where the receiver functions.

Hence the benefit of the external BEC...




www.kylestacy.com
Team MAPTERGY.... nuff said
02-13-2007 07:18 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Gary Hoorn
Key Veteran
Location: Annapolis Maryland USA

Quote 
Could a faulty ESC cause a lockout with a 2.4 system?
Yes it can! Any type of radio will fail to respond if the supply voltage drops too low.
Gary
02-15-2007 04:58 AM
 
 
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Radio - JR & Spektrum DSM > DX7/AR7000 Complete Lockout
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