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Beginners Corner > ** Hello, a new guy here, help me!! :) **

engineer
Heliman
Location: Southern California, USA

Hi~!

I've been hitting this site almost everyday, and I think many "veterans" are very generous in helping out the novices. So I decided to register, seeking help and insight.
I'm very new to this hobby and I need all the help I can get. I have few questions to ask and I welcome any (I mean any) kind of input and help I can get.
I'm trying to decide on 60 heli, so that i can start saving up towards it (this will be my first heli). As of now I'm reading whatever I can on RC Helicopter and doing research on Internet. I have 3 questions. Please give me any opinion and information that you might have regarding my questions, or just any tips for a beginner. Thanks~!
Here are my questions:

1. Like how many people feel, the money seems to be a big factor in RC Heli. Personally, I don't even know when I'll be able to buy one, hopefully within a year. (any tips on fast money saving method?

) But away from the money factor, what would be a good heli between the Raptor 60 V2 and Freya? (I'm thinking about getting a kit. I think that'll be the fastest way for me to get my hands on 60 RC Heli)

2. In general, what would be a good starting out 60 heli for a beginner like me? Should I even start out with 60?

3. Just out of curiosity, what fits (or fits well) inside a 60 airwolf?

I appreciate any inputs on any of the questions. I'll be anxiously waiting for any follow-up posts. Thanks in advance for the generous help and support!

Best regards,
Alex

01-23-2002 Over year old.

crosby
Heliman
Location: Iowa City, Iowa

Alex,
I'm a beginner too. I got a Raptor 30 last April and couldn't resist getting a second later in the summer. I'm no expert, but maybe I can share how I got going and it'll give ya some ideas.
I started out getting a computer simulator; Real Flight G2. It has several different heli's and more models can be found as downloads on the web. I got to try out several different types of heli's without actually buying them! I decided on a Raptor 30 for cheap priced replacement parts (expecting crashes) I have no real clubs in my area, I found someone else, as new as me, and we are doing the careful 'trial and error' thing.
I did crash a bit last year, 'bout 6 times, but was able to save several different 'close calls' due to experience with the simulator.
So to bottom line it: 1) a 60 size bird will probably be more stable, but expect your repair bills ( crashes will happen ) to be higher than on a 30 size bird.
2) Get yourself a simulator (250$ or so) and see how badly you want to fly, and get some perspective on how hard it can be. It'll help you learn to get a stable hover mastered and will help you try out harder manuevers later on before risking the real thing to learn on...
--Good luck!! It's a blast!

Remember; It always seems darkest before going totally black.

01-23-2002 Over year old.

1UP
Key Veteran
Location: Claymont DE.

HI ALEX! I DON'T SEE A LOCATION OF WHERE YOU LIVE? THERE MUST BE A FILD WITH IN DRIVING DESTINE OF YOU!! MIGHT EVEN A HELI. BUDDY NEAR!!!! BUT LISTEN TO GREG, HE GOT THE RIGHT IDLE

J.C. (T.N.T.)

01-23-2002 Over year old.

alessandrop65
Senior Heliman
Location: Colorado

Hi and welcome to the exciting and albeit expensive world of Helis

!!

I just caught the heli bug but I have experience with rc cars and planes. helis are more expensive than planes but also more rewarding... in my humble opinion. To get started you need to be highly motivated and able to stomach some upfront expenses. I recommend getting a good used ARF (almost ready to fly) heli and a good radio from some of the decent folks here at RunRyder. Invest some money on a flight simulator. The simulator will help you... if you fly it like the reall thing and not treat it as a toy. I would also recommend finding other more expert heli flyers in your area and talk to them... experienced people in this hobby that are willing to help is what will help you the most... these people are invaluable to this hobby. Read forums posts but most of all ask for help.

Just my two cents,
alex--

01-23-2002 Over year old.

nutswinger
Senior Heliman
Location: TX

fer what it is worth, i have never owned a 30 or 46 size heli. i learned on a 60 back in 80, and have only owned/flown big helis.

look here for some localised help:
http://p-locate.rc-helipad.com
good in person help is worth a lotta money and time, especially before ya step off the deep end and spend any money.

01-23-2002 Over year old.

jbrundt
Veteran
Location: St. Charles, MO

Alex,

You can learn to fly on anything really. It all depends on how you set it up. One thing you notice right away with a 60 is the power. There is quite a bit more than compared to a 30 size machine. The power increase alone is enough to intimidate a new flier (or even someone moving up to a 60 from a 30).

The 60 size machines are more stable in less than favorable conditions but their weight can cause problems if you land too hard while learning. Mass in motion and all...you know. You may need to go with sturdier training gear but that's OK since the machine will be able to handle the weight. It will make transporting it a bit difficult if you plan to leave the training gear on when going to and from the flying field. A set of training gear on a 60 can have about a 4 foot span. that's quite a large footprint to fit in a trunk or SUV cargo space. Unless you want to re-install the gear each time you get to the field.

As for starting out a Raptor 60 makes a good machine to learn on and grow with. It has a low initial cost and will do 3D right out of the box. But you can also set it up for training as well (true of any 60 size heli). A Hirobo Freya is good too but will cost at least $200 more. Plus it is heavier than most of the other 60's out there. JR, XCell, Vario, Robbe and Kyosho all make good 60 size helis. Any of them would work for you. In the end it will be what you can afford. Plan on saving around $1500 to get you started. This will include heli, radio, servos, gyro, motor and assorted support equipment. This is at the very low end of what you can expect to lay out for a 60 sized machine when you're starting from scratch. that's why most people start out with a 30 size machine. Less initial outlay. You can start out for less than $700 with a good 30.

As far as radios go get the best one you can afford. You can go the inexpensive route but as you progress you'll find yourself outgrowing the radio quickly. A good 6 channel heli radio is fine but you'll eventually want a 9 channel with all the added features. If you can find a good 6 channel used for a great price then I'd say go for it but if you are buying new just spend the extra right off the bat and get a 9 channel.

Try to find someone near you that flies helis. Talk to them. Watch them fly if you can. It really helps to have someone near for help and encouragement. It can be easy to get discouraged if you try to do it all yourself and are constantly faced with problems or questions. It's even harder if you have no RC experience what-so-ever. Ask lots of questions on this web site. Do searches on the web for others. There is a lot of good info out there. Try to make your questions specific after you do your research. It will help improve the quality of the answers you get. Buy Ray's Complete Helicopter Manual. Lots of good info in there even if some of it is dated.

As for your Airwolf question; both Century Helicopters and Vario make Airwolf fuselages to fit most 60 size mechanics.

Welcome to the world of RC Helis. You're in for one hell of a ride

Jeff
(shamless plug for my R60 web page) http://www.geocities.com/jbrundt/raptor.html

01-23-2002 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

scotter
Senior Heliman
Location: Elkton, MD

beginner

Alex, unless money is no object, I would say start out with a 30. There are several good 30 size entry level ships on the market (most popular are probably Raptor 30, then Century Hawk). Go for what is popular in your area and what the local flyers are flying. You need to go find the local heli flyers and talk to them first, find out what you can about their experience level and how available they are as a resource. If they're available you'll be leaning heavily on them for their help, so buy what they're familiar with and they can help you with your setup.
60 size ships are nice, and may be more stable than a 30 if set up right, but that's a big "if."

01-23-2002 Over year old.

hawk
Heliman
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

As for what fits well....

As for your question about what fits well inside a 60 sized heli....

I recently told my 9yr old son that his hamster would fit nicely....hehe

I WAS KIDDING......

--Hawk

01-24-2002 Over year old.

engineer
Heliman
Location: Southern California, USA

THANKS SO MUCH FOR ALL YOU REPLIES~! :)

Hi,
I just logged on tonight and was very glad to see so many of you willing to help and share information. I want to thank all of you. You guys are nice people. I will remember all your advices before I make any decisions, including the hamster(?!?), hehe.

Greg, I just visited your web site. So many pictures of Raptor(s) flying. Very nice. First time visiting so I'll visit often to see if there is any updates. J.C., I'm from Southern California and I'll try to look for flying fields and clubs for more info. and help. Alex (hehe, same name), I read that the first time novice should buy a kit and start from the scratch. So that I'll know what to do when the precious RC crashes. Or is it no?

I'll look for more info. and see if I should buy a used heli. "nutswinger", thanks for the pilot locator web site. I saw that once on the web and couldn't find it again. Thanks for letting me know. Jeff, I've been to your website so many times that I know it back and forth.

Interesting web site, because of your everyday diary style pages (which I enjoyed so much) and I got a lot of info. on Raptor 60. Thanks for all the great advices. "Scotter", thanks so much for your help. I think I'll probably have to start out with a 30 due to the expenses. And "Hawk", I enjoyed your joke. Thank you for the answer to my question. Very nicely put reply.
All of you guys, thanks so much for the help and advice. I greatly appreciate each reply and I'll remember them when I make my decision. Once again, thanks

You guys are GREAT~!

Best regards,
Alex

01-24-2002 Over year old.

Greg Takacs
Veteran
Location: Fort Worth, TX

If you were set on a 60 and now you're thinking 30 due to monetary constraints, you might want to think about getting a 50

.

The 50 will have the cost benefit of the 30 (typically the same heli as the 30 version) yet it will have the power of a 60. The OS50 will produce as much power as the 60 engines produced 3 years ago.

I have started with a Raptor 30, it was a great learning machine, but I have outgrown it within one season, I needed more power. So I got the Sceadu 50 and I like it a lot. It flies very smooth and the OS50 is just great! I'm sure the Raptor 50 would be just as powerful outfitted with the OS50.

Before I started I got a sim as well and practiced on that a lot. You might want to do the same, get the sim ASAP and by the time you'll have the $$$ to get the heli you should be able to hover and fly around.

Check out my site, I have a "What to get?" section and a "Heli FAQ" that is written towards beginners.

Welcome to the great hobby of R/C helis, I'm sure you'll have a blast!

01-24-2002 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

SnappyRappy
Heliman
Location: Florida

Hi Alex,
In line with what others have said here, I'd suggest a Raptor as a first heli. It's a great machine for beginners. The 30 size will cost less and replacement parts will cost less than for a 50 or 60 size bird. The bigger size heli's do offer the advantages of greater stability, visibility and you can do more with them but, until you've gain confidence with your flying skills, you may find the 30 size heli will give you the most "bang for your buck". I also agree with what Crosby and Greg say about investing in a good sim before you make your heli purchase. G2 is a great program and offers "virtual instructor", multiplayer, and a host of other options where you can "test out" new manoeuvers under simulated weather conditions. Its really the next best thing to the real thing.

01-25-2002 Over year old.

engineer
Heliman
Location: Southern California, USA

More THANKS !! :)

Hi!
Thanks for the replies. I'm very glad that people who visit this site, and people in this hobby actually care about others who are starting out. You guys don't stop pouring in support and help~! I'm really happy that I decided on this hobby. Greg and "SnappyRappy" I'm thinking about buying a simulator now. I wasn't going to get one but I guess you guys would know better than I do. The simulator price is high but according to you guys and many others, it's better investment than crashing my first heli several times. Hopefully if I do get the simulator, it'll minimize the number of crashes. Greg, I visited your website during last December and learned alot about starting in this great hobby. Thanks. By any chance, would the G2 simulator come with some kind of radio in its package so that I can practice using an actual radio? I guess I have to find out.
Thanks guys. All of you guys are great~! I have so much confidence that I'll enjoy this hobby because of the people who are already in it.

Best regards,
Alex

01-25-2002 Over year old.

HeliinAL
Heliman
Location: Montgomery, AL

simulators

Just another thought about simulators...

Definitely get one. I have seen it mentioned here and elsewhere and I have to agree with this statement, but it goes something like this

a simulator will more than save its price in crashes on the real thing.

I am running a really old PC, so I can not get the G2. I have CSM which is less expensive, but the graphics are no where near as nice as the G2. The flight characteristics of both sims are very close to the real thing...in that it is not simply a game. It WILL help flying.

If price is an issue or simply want to save money...check out here, e-bay or rconline for a used sim. I got my CSM for $60.

best of luck,
Brian

01-25-2002 Over year old.

Greg Takacs
Veteran
Location: Fort Worth, TX

Alex,

The G2 is shipped in two flavors, one with a "Dummy radio" that looks like a radio and plugs directly into your game port, and another one that is just an interface that connects your real radio to the computer via the serial (?) port.

I have the dummy box version so I don't have to worry about wearing my batteries and sticks down on the real thing and I can pla with it any time as it's sitting on my desk all the time. I would recommend getting the Dummy box, a lot easier to set up and I don't see the benefit of playing with your real radio.

With CSM you only have the option to play it with your real radio though.....

As far as heli size goes, I still would recommend the 50, crash cost is almost the same as a 30 (the blades cost a little more), and the extra power of the 50 will save your butt from a lot of close calls and make learning 3D a LOT easier, you don't have to have the finesse that the 30 requires due to its lack of power.

01-25-2002 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

scotter
Senior Heliman
Location: Elkton, MD

To each his own

I guess some people like chocolate and some like vanilla. For me, I like having an interface so I can use my own radio. With this you're only running the software on the radio, but not the RF module. As a result, you're not transmitting and you're using very little battery juice. I can play for hours and hardly see my voltage drop on my transmitter. For me it was (and still is) very useful to fly with my own transmitter because then I could play with different pitch curves, mixes, switch positions, etc. and see their effect on flight. If you're just getting into the hobby the programming of the radio is an additional thing you have to learn, so this is a good way to learn how to program your particular radio. Additionally, it helps me get used to the switch positions on my radio so I don't have to take my eyes off the chopper when I'm doing the real thing. Just my two cents...

01-25-2002 Over year old.

Doug
Elite Veteran
Location: Naples Florida....

I agree with Greg on this one The Dummy transmitter is the way to go. I can't tell you how many times it has taken a "header" off the desk (sure glad it wasn't my real one)

01-25-2002 Over year old.

engineer
Heliman
Location: Southern California, USA

** G2 Simulator **

Hello,

Thanks so much for educating me on the simulator issue. After reading the suggestions, I went to look for simulator on the net and at the hobby stores. But I got confused about which G2 simulator I should get. First of all, some people think that the "dummy" radio control will be good while the others think that the actual radio would be a better training tool. There are so many different variations of G2 simulator. They have different modes, and different terms, but most of them are around 200 bucks. So if you guys would be a bit more gracious and generous, please teach me about the simulator choices (or descriptions) so that i can make a right decision on getting the simulator.
I'm very excited about flying RC, can't wait until my own heli gets off the ground for the first time. You guys make this hobby so much better and I'm still amazed at how people can be so willing to help and share information with others~! Thank you for all your help~!

Best regards,
Alex

01-29-2002 Over year old.

Greg Takacs
Veteran
Location: Fort Worth, TX

There really aren't that many choices with RealFlight......

First you have to decide if you want the dummy box or the radio interface. I can't decide for you, I've already written down my take on it, I'd go with the dummy box again if I'd do it again.

If you decide on the interface, then you need to buy the G2 with the interface. It will work with most of the radios out there. (I wrote most, because it will not work with the JR 10X, it needs some modification that can be done by Great Planes for you, I think)

If you decide on the dummy box, then tere is Mode 1 and Mode 2 that you can choose from. Beleive it or not, you have the same choice (Mode1 and Mode2) among real radios as well, it's just that you didn't know about it. This whole mess is because people on the other side of the globe do things differently, like they drive on the wrong side of the street they also have the throttle on the other side of the radio.

Since THEY (the other side of the globe) started R/C (or so they beleive) the version where the right hand controls the throttle and the aileron, and the left hand handles the elevator and the rudder is called Mode 1.
Us, in the US use Mode 2 layout, where the throttle and rudder is on the left stick and the aileron and elevator is on the right stick. This is called Mode 2.

Since you're in SoCal, I'd assume you'll be flying Mode 2, so go for the Mode 2 version of realFlight G2.

With real radios you won't see them selling Mode1 radios in the US as noone would fly them. Also changing the dummy box from mode 1 to mode 2 does not take a lot of work, but if you get Mode 2 you would never have to mess with it.

And here is the weirdest thing: In hungary, my friends use Mode 2 to control their choppers, but instead of pushing the throttle UP they are pulling it DOWN for more throttle and pitch. Kida weird if you ask me, but they "claim" that is how the real thing is, you're "pulling" on the collective, so we left it at that. But it looks awful funny to see their heli hover a 1/4 stick and as you'd think it would slam into the ground it just shoots off to the skies........

So whatever works for you, go with it, but I'd HIGHLY recommend going with Mode 2 as you can get the most support that way, noone would want to learn your weird way of setup otherwise

01-29-2002 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

tittelba
Senior Heliman
Location: Bolingbrook, IL

JR 10X tx works with G2

Greg,
I've been flying in RFG2 with my JR 10X tx just fine. Never had to do anything to get it to work. What makes you believe this is the case?... just wondering.

Regards,
Tom

www.baltimoreboyz.us

01-29-2002 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Greg Takacs
Veteran
Location: Fort Worth, TX

Since don't own neither an interface nor a JR 10X I could only go with what is posted on the RealFlight G2 support place, here is the exact text:

Quote
For now, if you have a 10 Channel JR radio, you need to order a slightly different stock number of RealFlight to be compatible with your radio. If you have already purchased the one that is incompatible with your JR 10 radio, then contact RealFlight Support at rfsupport@greatplanes.com to get a replacement interface

That is my knowledge of the matter so please don't ask for more......

01-29-2002 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

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