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Synergy R/C Synergy N9 > I agree with Droid...

shawgl
Key Veteran
Location: Sunny San Diego! Finally!!!

Tyree, I do what I can.....Log what I need....... You can't tell me that to be the ONE guy that has balled up his new synergy because of a FLUKE T/T failure isn't an unlucky guy????? Notice the big smiles on my other post.... That means "joking". Don't take yourself too seriously. Now as for the rest of this, Dadiesyaght is right, give the guys the common courtesy to fix the problem, if there is one. As for DROID, I have met them and I do not know them that well, they are not friends. Acquatances....maybe. I emailed the synergy site about a set of SAB blades because they are a distributor here in the states and I couldn't find the blades I wanted.

This is what I got back the next morning. Oh yea, it's not like if they stick something in the mail straight to your address you wont get it.

Quote
Greg, Ron lund should have them in stock as well as zooms hobbys in Ca. I would recommend you go with the art 0225 its a better blade then the art 0224. Both the art 0224 and 225 look identical but the art 0225 is better. Please let me know if you cannot find these at the dealers i gave you. Regards, Todd

In God we trust, everyone else we monitor.

09-17-2006 09:42 AM

Helinutnz
Elite Veteran
Location: below 42 South

09-17-2006 10:02 AM

HATORI
Heliman
Location: uk

maybe heliman should close this post down its getting stupid now

09-17-2006 10:16 AM

heliman
Senior Heliman
Location: Fullerton, CA

I'm not angry.

I'm just conveying what I think is a better design. I'm just saying that a pinned or screwed system would be better, that's all.

No need to chill here.

09-17-2006 05:52 PM

Helinutnz
Elite Veteran
Location: below 42 South

09-17-2006 08:37 PM

Droid
Elite Veteran
Location: Deep down in the Southwest- UK

I'd agree with that, i foolishley put my trust in the design but forgot to take into account the manufacture.

You guys that have been around so long, go have a look at the robbe milli 2 TT and ask why is the synergy so overengineered!

Quotes may have been changed for my own amusement

09-17-2006 09:41 PM

ehn
Senior Heliman
Location: Fairfax Station, VA

Droid says:

"I closed my TT post as it was turning into a personal conflict and i wasn't running from that it just seemed the thread was going nowhere, unless its informative its no use!"

You didn't close until you got in this last post that I couldn't reply to, where you insult me and my country:

**********************************************
My last post on this topic goes to ehn,

You come from a country that will not accept blame, sue people over the smallest things, so i ask you why do you think i should admit that it was my fault , this won't protect JK and TB if i do because i'm not sueing anyone to start with.

This was my first informative thread after my initial comments on the kit to raise awareness and all i got from across the pond (which i expected anyway) barring a few PM's (thanks to those you know who you are!!) was its MY fault....... so believe what you want.
***********************************************

I subsequently sent you 2 friendly PM's about your crash, which you didn't have the courtesy to respond to. Yeah, you're a real saint closing your TT thread. You're the loud squeeky wheel negative customer that every business owner fears. With you it's half empty rather than half full, and someone's fault other than yours that it's half empty.

Long Island Eric

09-18-2006 06:46 AM

ehn
Senior Heliman
Location: Fairfax Station, VA

Heliman, of 13 parts 8 are set screws! Probably could get by with 2 set screws, so that's 7 parts.

You said "I've owned enough helicopters to know when a TT design could be simpler and more reliable."

It's a small miracle that JK hasn't heard of your skills, contacted you, and offered you a job as a consultant!

If Droid's failure WASN'T the TT coupler system, which I strongly suspect, then there have been NO failures. Maybe some difficult assembly. So how could it be more reliable with NO failures???

Please read Charles' post on the failure, as well as mine, and the following PM I sent to Droid - I'd like your and others opinions as to why it's not likely this wasn't a TT coupler failure. I have a vested interest in that I have 2 Synergy's on order, and as of now I don't plan on changing the TT couplers. However, I will put some stress on the couplers with a lever to see if it seems secure.

Hi Droid

I just noticed the splines are stripped over half the length of the coupler. Seems that if it was pre-crash slippage that it would be one circular path. Otherwise, how did the coupler have that much play to move that far to get stripped so much? Perhaps during the crash it pulled apart as it was spinning ...

Maybe he didn't answer because it makes sense and it would force him to admit he's wrong.

Long Island Eric

09-18-2006 07:01 AM

ehn
Senior Heliman
Location: Fairfax Station, VA

Droid says " tell you what i'll take the motor and servos out get it repaired and i'll offer it to you at 20% of the UK RRP that'll be $1053 at todays rate"

I hope you're better at rebuilding/repairing than investigating the cause of a crash.

Long Island Eric

09-18-2006 07:23 AM

Droid
Elite Veteran
Location: Deep down in the Southwest- UK

Thats your PERSONAL comment and i'd prefer it if you kept it to yourself.

Failure analysis is part of my job

As for your PM i'm not going to reply to you personally i'll do it publicly

"I'm a physician and I hate lawyers/the legal system in the US. Slamming my country and me is one of the reasons this thread should be closed. Closed as your mind. Why is it NOT possible you had a TR servo failure for whatever reason, and that the coupler damage was from the crash? Please tell me why that isn't possible. And if it is, maybe next time you crash like that you should check connections rather than rush to judgement."

You are obviously unaware to the physics involved while throttle hold is applied, most pilots hit this switch before the model goes in to prevent further damage from the heli flailing on the floor, that is unless you are Alan Szabo and feel it is clever to let your model career around like a mini rotivator in front of the public.

All my connections were intact as i apply belt and braces to every connection wrapped longitudinally with thread and cyano and then heat shrinked over the top, into the receiver they are positively held in with the thread and cyano then wrapped in insulation tape then covered in foam and wrapped again. My connections do not come undone.

"I just noticed the splines are stripped over half the length of the coupler. Seems that if it was pre-crash slippage that it would be one circular path. Otherwise, how did the coupler have that much play to move that far to get stripped so much? Perhaps during the crash it pulled apart as it was spinning ..."

The line you are referring to is directly where the set screws were installed and where the coupling was rotating freely without friction or binding , could be slid in and out of the torque tube, with the collar installed. I still believe because my ends were so tight that this contributed to the failure as the splines would have been deformed on the way in.

You don't know me as a person Long Island Eric ( sounds like a drink doesn't it!!). I will admit when i'm wrong, i consider i have credability in the REAL world.

The bottom line is mine failed, i hope no one elses will and i really hope yours doesn't, but then you'd never admit it on here anyway. I was only trying to raise awareness instead all i got was a slagging.

Apologise to me accept that mine failed and lets just all get along eh!

Quotes may have been changed for my own amusement

09-18-2006 12:10 PM

heliman
Senior Heliman
Location: Fullerton, CA

I'm with you Droid.

I don't know how you assembled it but a more positive contact joint wouldn't have allowed that type of failure.

The same people who are excoriating you may have, or have had, a failure and I'm sure that they have or will attribute it to their poor assembly skills. Poor quality or bad design is not an option.

For example, if a tail hub breaks while flying, they must have overtightened it during assembly and stretched it. These people will defend themselves to the nines because they've done this simple assembly step many times before. However, the rest of us will deride them.

Oh well.

09-18-2006 05:35 PM

ehn
Senior Heliman
Location: Fairfax Station, VA

Droid- "The line you are referring to is directly where the set screws were installed and where the coupling was rotating freely without friction or binding , could be slid in and out of the torque tube, with the collar installed. I still believe because my ends were so tight that this contributed to the failure as the splines would have been deformed on the way in. "

I'll reserve further comment until I have one in my hands. BTW, do you have any crash photos of your TT & tail? You only posted the frame & main rotor areas.

Does anyone know what the forces generated by a model heli tail rotor can be in foot or inch-pounds, or Newton-meters?

Long Island Eric

09-18-2006 06:14 PM

Droid
Elite Veteran
Location: Deep down in the Southwest- UK

The only reason i posted those areas because they were damaged the torque tube was not and a slight ding in the tail boom.

If it makes you feel better about yourself i'll take some photos!!

You reserve further comment until you have what in your hands?

Oh and thanks for the apology

Quotes may have been changed for my own amusement

09-18-2006 06:21 PM

ehn
Senior Heliman
Location: Fairfax Station, VA

Heliman, I disagree with one of your points - "I don't know how you assembled it but a more positive contact joint wouldn't have allowed that type of failure."

Let's assume a worst case scenario of a crash, with severe stress to the TR system, anywhere from the main gears to the TR gearbox. What is going to fail? It may be anything from the gears (main or TR), the TT itself, the couplers, etc. At some point something has to fail, and it does not neccessarily imply a design failure.

However, I agree completely with your other point: - "The same people who are excoriating you may have, or have had, a failure and I'm sure that they have or will attribute it to their poor assembly skills. Poor quality or bad design is not an option."

Right on! Anyone who flys much sees people who crash that blame it on the radio when it's mechanical or someone on their frequency.

You also said - "For example, if a tail hub breaks while flying, they must have overtightened it during assembly and stretched it. These people will defend themselves to the nines because they've done this simple assembly step many times before. However, the rest of us will deride them."

Or, someone crashes, sees stripped splines on a coupler, and discounts any other cause. Then if someone suggests another cause, they go bonkers. Gosh, remember when Charles had the nerve to suggest an alternate scenario (nicely), and Droid WENT BEZERK?! Thanks for making a great point!

Long Island Eric

09-18-2006 07:22 PM

Droid
Elite Veteran
Location: Deep down in the Southwest- UK

Long winded eric,

Again you've PM'd me does this mean we are nearly an item??

I am extremely good at failure analysis that is how i have come to the conclusion that the coupler failed in flight, i even mentioned that the heli was telling me the flight before it let go, i have repeatedly stated that the model was in throttle hold and hit the ground nose first from 30 ft. The gyro and servo are in another model at the moment and have been tested without failure even though the gyro case was destroyed!

Now either you do not fly helicopters or have never crashed whilst in throttle hold but it is extremely difficult to break tail rotor parts in both my circumstances.

Do you own an N9? Have you put your tail together?

I apologise publicly for insulting the US of A because as normal it is the minority that give their country a bad name.

You are obviously a sceptical person and being a physician i find that hard to believe, most collate facts before making assumptions.

What do you have to gain by trying to discredit me?

I fly my models as a hobby, not for personal financial gain in fact quite the opposite it costs me to enjoy my hobby.

Quotes may have been changed for my own amusement

09-18-2006 07:51 PM

ehn
Senior Heliman
Location: Fairfax Station, VA

Droid - "Long winded eric,

Again you've PM'd me does this mean we are nearly an item?? "

I PM'd you because I thought most people would tire of reading this drivel. No problem, no more PM's or replies to you Droid.

Long Island Eric

09-18-2006 08:28 PM

HATORI
Heliman
Location: uk

droid just a quick question if you knew something was wrong with the heli why did you fly her again ????? not having a dig at you just wondering

09-18-2006 08:43 PM

Droid
Elite Veteran
Location: Deep down in the Southwest- UK

CC

I mentioned in the earlier thread that in hindsight it had told me something was amiss.

I'm not perfect i made a mistake and continued to fly it let go after it should have, after 3/4 tank of full power climbouts.

I was having fun at last after many hours of lost flying time
i suppose i was making the most of everything being nearly right at last, sorry for that.

Thats the way it goes.

Eric
Thanks for that i notice that you only ever reply to your own questions never one of mine, nice to see you are open minded.
After all i apologised like i said i would and you have not.
Of course you aren't gonna reply seems you got the last word in, Touche! Feels good don't it

Quotes may have been changed for my own amusement

09-18-2006 08:57 PM

HATORI
Heliman
Location: uk

nice too hear you made a mistake by flying again we are all human after all would have been good if you hadnt flown and found the problem with the torque tube without crashing her then there wouldnt be any questions on the failure did it cause the crash ??? or did it happen when it hit the ground we will never know for sure

09-18-2006 09:58 PM

Droid
Elite Veteran
Location: Deep down in the Southwest- UK

I must reiterate that the heli went nose vertical into the ground the blades weren't spinning, i fudged the auto and lost ALL head speed, i still can't comprehend how anyone feels the TT failed in the crash??

If that was the case then i'd be scratching my head to as what caused the failure, like i've said the gyro is on my trex now and the servo is working no probs, the rest of the linkage is intact.

By process of elimination if it looks like a dog, and barks like a dog, it probably is a dog!!

Quotes may have been changed for my own amusement

09-18-2006 10:04 PM

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Synergy R/C Synergy N9 > I agree with Droid...

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