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Synergy R/C Synergy N9 > Torque tube failure!
 
 
Droid
Elite Veteran
Location: Deep down in the Southwest- UK

I might have mentioned this before but i build/rebuild caterpillar marine engines for my living, i have not managed to retain my employment for 15 years by not knowing when something is tight or not.

As for these grub screws have in the past experienced the hex hole destroyed by people overtightening them with worn out tools, my tools are not worn out but i actually treated myself to a brand new set of bondhus allen keys for this build.

I posted this thread not for sympathy but felt that i should share my experience so that others would not have my headache, that is after all the nature of these forums is it not!

And why shouldn't i have expected an aerial tube or skid bungs this in my eyes is attention to detail after all.

This is my first mechanical failure ( barring servos and NHP carbon servo pushrods)of any part of a helicopter in 4 years flying and i don't go out once a month with half a gallon of fuel.

Hans i think your final comment sums it up

Synergy N9 And i quote you " not particularly top end." I think those 2 phrases go together.

I'm not badmouthing the design its the manufacture and that makes up for 90% of this helicopter.

Quotes may have been changed for my own amusement
09-15-2006 06:24 PM
 
 
steve9534
Key Veteran
Location: yakima, wa.

hansking

I'd refer you back to pages 2 and 3 of this thread. Both anjki and John M reported similar problems. RockDoc also had a problem, but thought his loosening to be caused by not lining up the flats properly. Once it's come loose and starts to turn, I don't know how you could tell whether the original alignment was correct or not. Thanks. steve.
09-15-2006 06:26 PM
 
 
ehn
Senior Heliman
Location: Fairfax Station, VA

Droid, you are a tool - and you are making a fool of yourself, IMHO:

>>Charles are you saying that i'm lying??

>>And for those that didn't get it

LOOSE AND SPINNING

>> Charles are you lacking something upstairs??

>> torque because it was LOOSE AND SLIPPING!!!
Is that plain and simple enough for you to comprehend???


Charles is a VERY experienced pilot and meticulous builder, and after reading everything, I think he's RIGHT! How is it possible for the tail rotor to generate enough force to have the set screws strip the splines on the couplers??? Think about it - it's virtually impossible! The fact that the spines were stripped indicates that you torqued down the set screws correctly. The only thing that makes sense is that the torque tube or TR blades got jammed or locked, and the engine or inertia of the main blades put enough force to do the damage you documented.

Assuming everything else checked out mechanically, what's left? radio /electronic/etc failure. I lost my TR control once when the TR servo plug worked it's way out. This may be a likely scenario for your crash, and if there was enough damage, difficult to reconstruct (why don't you check your gyro wiring if you haven't already tampered with it?).

From your original post:

Model passes at 30 ft bank to its right and on the exit (knife edge)violent tail movement.. tail control gone..damn must be the servo!

Violent tail movement doesn't sound like slippage, does it?! And you said yourself, must be the servo ...

But if you have blinders on, jump to conclusions, and yell and berate people who are trying to help, you won't learn from this crash and it may happen again.

I believe if you step back, chill out, and reconsider, you may change your mind. And then you will have an enormous helping of humble pie to eat. And owe Synergy, JK, TB, and Charles apologies.

BTW, Heliman, I don't believe it's a pure friction joint. A pure friction joint would have a smooth coupler without splines, and use something like a hose clamp around the TT rather than set screws. You may not have designed it this way, but four set screws into a TT into splines on a coupler seems like a very solid joint.

Lastly, Stu. - most of the issues you listed are manufacturing/supplier issues. Yes, QC could be better, but I believe it will improve. This is their first company/heli. Give them a litlle slack!

Long Island Eric
09-15-2006 06:34 PM
 
 
Droid
Elite Veteran
Location: Deep down in the Southwest- UK

ehn

There is only one type of pie i eat and it aint humble

I know what went, i was there and i'm paying for it so take your assumptions and go for a walk in the woods with chuckie

If i couldnt make it more plain and simple the collar was tight still on the tube i could rotate the hex VERY freely without friction in the end of the tube, look at the photos the grub screw were tight into the tube most have confirmed they feel they looked so.

So bottom line is that it was not driving the tail, now how this would have failed after plowing the nose into the ground from 30ft at idle in throttle hold is beyond me, i you feel differently then fine see if i care.

I'm not after a medal or anything here i'm just saying how it is PERIOD.

Don't tell me what i've got sitting right in front of me.

Charles is running 95 mm blades if i remember ....why??

I run a very high headspeed and 105 tail blades so there will be more force generated at the tail than charles', i had explained that prior to this failure i had done numerous full power climbouts, now correct me if i'm wrong but that generates an awesome amount of TORQUE in the TORQUE tube.......

And don't call me names grow up, the only fool here is the one that doesn't check his TT.

Quotes may have been changed for my own amusement
09-15-2006 06:48 PM
 
 
yugi
Veteran
Location: Maryland

Droid,

In all fairness, How do you explain that Todd, Jason, Matt, and Nigel fly A LOT HARDER than all others and they have no problems with the TT?

Yugi

If you keep doing the same thing…...you’re going to get the same results!
09-15-2006 06:58 PM
 
 
hansking12
Senior Heliman
Location: irvine, ca

slipping

steve, the problem was slipping, not "loose ends". i would be interested to see if the ends which the two you mentioned aren't within tolerance, first of all. second, even if they go in easy, the compression of the grub screws will deform the soft alum tt easily enough to clamp it in 4 distinct places around its circumference. so, i don't see a problem there, so long as the clamping forces are sufficient.

so, who else has a SLIPPING tt?

regards,

hans
09-15-2006 06:59 PM
 
 
ehn
Senior Heliman
Location: Fairfax Station, VA

Droid:

"And don't call me names grow up, the only fool here is the one that doesn't check his TT."

and "Is that plain and simple enough for you to comprehend??? "

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! Well, just assume your electrical connections never fail, and keep on flying.

I wish you lived on the east coast of the U.S. I'd pay for a bunch of TT's with couplers, etc, and then we could experiment with a torque wrench. I just don't believe that 105's or whatever size you put on can generate that much force in the air. Maybe in water or oil. Probably not even then ...

Long Island Eric
09-15-2006 07:00 PM
 
 
hansking12
Senior Heliman
Location: irvine, ca

good luck droid

i hope you find a heli which satisfies all of your requirements and comes with everything you want. if you do, please let me know, perhaps i would be interested in one too.

i think it's time i stopped participating in this thread, it seems to be going downhill, unfortunately. thanks for posting the pictures, that has to be one of the worst synergy crashes that i've seen so far with the frames broken. ouch.

sorry that you had so much trouble with the n9. i've had nothing but fun with mine, so it's dissappointing that your experience hasn't been similar.

safe flying,

sincerely,

hans
09-15-2006 07:20 PM
 
 
Droid
Elite Veteran
Location: Deep down in the Southwest- UK

So you can't invisage that possibly due to the extremely tight nature of my couplers they may have flattened off the splines rendering them ineffective, anyway i'm not defending myself anymore i've modified it and it'll never fail like that again.

We have a few academics here maybe some one could come up with the math and give us a force?? I haven't got the time or inclination.

Quotes may have been changed for my own amusement
09-15-2006 07:31 PM
 
 
Droid
Elite Veteran
Location: Deep down in the Southwest- UK

Anyway hans i think you're right if Mark Ryder is watching CLOSE THIS THREAD

Quotes may have been changed for my own amusement
09-15-2006 07:33 PM
 
 
Droid
Elite Veteran
Location: Deep down in the Southwest- UK

My last post on this topic goes to ehn,

You come from a country that will not accept blame, sue people over the smallest things, so i ask you why do you think i should admit that it was my fault , this won't protect JK and TB if i do because i'm not sueing anyone to start with.

This was my first informative thread after my initial comments on the kit to raise awareness and all i got from across the pond (which i expected anyway) barring a few PM's (thanks to those you know who you are!!) was its MY fault....... so believe what you want.

Good day.

Quotes may have been changed for my own amusement
09-15-2006 07:47 PM
 
 
miataguy
Veteran
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

I decided to drill one hole through the TT and a dimple into the coupler to reinforce the set screw. The other 3 are the stock friction/clamp method. Sort of a easy compromise solution instead of pinning the whole thing. Actually I'm glad to hear about others' problems so I know what to be careful about!

Official RunRyder Googlewhacker!
09-15-2006 07:53 PM
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Synergy R/C Synergy N9 > Torque tube failure!
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