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Fast Lad Performance . Ace Hobby . Esprit Model

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Synergy R/C Synergy N9 > Torque tube failure!
 
 
inkspot1967
rrProfessor
Location: cranston ri.

no i brought my torque tube to him since one of my hex were real loose fiting and that was ok and he said to flip the collar

Trex700e Ray Nemovi's kit & Tyler Bonta Head
Rave Flybarless
WENZEL CANOPY
Team TomTom
09-13-2006 06:18 PM
 
 
Droid
Elite Veteran
Location: Deep down in the Southwest- UK

rbmjw,

Anything could happen at funflys, that is why usually precautions are taken with nets, etc.

We are after all dealing with a machine and components will fail. That is why i posted my misfortune so hopefully it doesn't reoccur, and hopefully the manufacturer may modify the retaining system like i will to give the belt and braces effect!

Quotes may have been changed for my own amusement
09-13-2006 08:02 PM
 
 
hansking12
Senior Heliman
Location: irvine, ca

super redundant system for torque tube already in effect

although it feel badly that droid's heli had misfortune, this is the first time i've heard of a torque tube slipping in that fashion on a synergy. i don't think this in itself warrants a change in design since the whole thing has been used/abused under stringent circumstances. the system in place is already redundant seeing as there are 4 setscrews where only 1 is needed in a perfect world. unfortunately, if all 4 come loose, these things can happen. i would be interested to see a picture of the torque tube itself without the collar to try and determine whether the setscrews even engaged it significantly. there would be marks and deformation since the tube is alum and the screw is steel. . .

also, reversing the collar would only be useful if the fit was better/tighter where the set screws engaged--in droids case, since there was significant wear where they normally go in, reversing the collar would appear to be the better choice.

i flew the synergy again this morning after yesterday's exam and hammered the tail in both directions repeatedly and checked for slippage before/after the flight. there is minimal lash in the tail rotor system in a properly functioning n9 system, and the telltale sign that something is amiss is either slippage when turning the tail rotor while holding the main rotor or an increased amount of lash in the tail system. the increase in lash becomes quite noticable which usually indicates that the set screws(of where there are 4 front and rear) on the flats are loose. these are just my observations.
09-13-2006 09:38 PM
 
 
Droid
Elite Veteran
Location: Deep down in the Southwest- UK

Hans heres the photo of the tube, notice shiny rings were screws previously tightened, and my subsequent modification, the longer grub screw goes in an locks on the inside of the drive hexagon,which inturn is epoxied to the tube and the other three grub screws indented into the insert.

Case of once bitten twice shy methinks





Quotes may have been changed for my own amusement
09-13-2006 10:42 PM
 
 
JitsuGuy
Veteran
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma

How the heck did that thing slip?!
09-13-2006 10:57 PM
 
 
NOLONGERFLYING
Veteran
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

The bolt

The bolt/set screw you are seeing in the 2nd two pictures are not a normal part of the torque tube assembly! damn that thing goes all the way through?

If you dont succeed the first time, try and try again. With heli's keep on trying!
09-13-2006 10:59 PM
 
 
Droid
Elite Veteran
Location: Deep down in the Southwest- UK

Just to clarify this is my belt and braces modification!!

Yes the long grub screw goes all the way through, is threaded into the coupling and pinches the opposite of the inside, if this fails in flight i'll eat my canopy!!! I'm doing the same at the opposite end.

I'm not ready to try knife edge entry piros into chaos autos again for a while!

Quotes may have been changed for my own amusement
09-13-2006 11:12 PM
 
 
Stu.
Veteran
Location: Abrakebabra Kebab shop

only prob i see wiht that is this

aluminium torque tube, and stainless inserts.

Looks like it may introduce a point of stress. I know furies and raptors have been doing the same thing for years, however they are carbon and stainless shafts. Therefore they are much harder.

Stu
09-13-2006 11:52 PM
 
 
Droid
Elite Veteran
Location: Deep down in the Southwest- UK

Stu

The couplings in the ends are aluminium, not stainless, not sure what grade.

Quotes may have been changed for my own amusement
09-14-2006 12:06 AM
 
 
hansking12
Senior Heliman
Location: irvine, ca

droid

wow, that does look like it was tightened. the only other thing that i could think of which could contribute to this type of failure would be the end of the hex drive is not true. if it was off and either it or the female portion was not spinning inline, it would cause a "walking" motion which could contribute to the problem. any clues which could point to something like this droid?

i must say, the modified system you have appears robust! if the above scenario was indeed happening, the epoxy would fail, but that long set screw looks unlikely to.

good luck,

hans
09-14-2006 01:22 AM
 
 
John M
Senior Heliman
Location: Next door to the Wombles UK

This happened to my Synergy as well. Fortunately it was saved before any damaged was done.
I have contacted the local distributor for advice. I have also requested new couplers and grub screws as the burs on the old one are now slightly rounded.
I am wondering if I should locktite it or JBweld the assembly.

After saying that I do think this model has a place in the market built like a brick s*** house, flies like a bee and parts are cheap (where needed)
I am very pleasantly surprised with this model (and I have a Avant)

(There is a reason why people say don’t buy a model form the first run of kits.)
09-14-2006 08:36 AM
 
 
Stu.
Veteran
Location: Abrakebabra Kebab shop

I had a shaft where the shaft support bearings were not glued on at 90 degs, so they wobbled all over the place.

I had to pull the bearings off and reglue them on straight so they wouldnt wobble in the boom.

Dont know whether that was also an issue on yours.

Stu
09-14-2006 09:46 AM
 
 
Droid
Elite Veteran
Location: Deep down in the Southwest- UK

Stu funny you should mention that, last night i was just fiddling and noticed my bearing couplings one wasn't quite true. Having broke the glue i notice they are not a snug fit on the tube...were yours??

Quotes may have been changed for my own amusement
09-14-2006 12:36 PM
 
 
anjki
Heliman
Location: northants,uk

my synergy is in its early stages of running in and set up,and after inspection my couplings have signs of slipage just the same.
lucky for me i had a look because it was ready to let go.
i have now red loctited the tube to the insert and made sure them grubscrews are very tight!.i will be keeping a close eye on this over the next few flights.

andy
09-14-2006 04:40 PM
 
 
anjki
Heliman
Location: northants,uk

stu
i also had to reset them shaft support bearings,do you think it could have vibed in the boom?.

andy
09-14-2006 04:44 PM
 
 
Chuckie
Key Veteran
Location: Crofton Maryland, MHA member

Droid,

Set the bearing and outer bearing cup to rotate with no side to side movement. Check movement by holding sides of the outer cup and rotating the TT shaft, and then add CA to the inner ring on the open end of the cup. Let it soak under the inner ring.

Charles

Please stand by for faster service!
09-14-2006 05:23 PM
 
 
raptorheli2
Elite Veteran
Location: rip off britain and no changing it

so much for not having to buy new ends for the tube then eh, they are not even lasting normal flights for a month let along taking them on and off to put them on a new tube.

i'll be doing my mod tonight but i'm undecided what way to go to repair it.

cheers


www.waterfoothelis.com
09-14-2006 07:09 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
anjki
Heliman
Location: northants,uk

i would be interested to no how they hold up after being drilled for a pin or bolt.i dont want to drill mine just yet,i am woried that this may cause a weak point in the tube.
any thoughts anyone?
andy
09-14-2006 07:21 PM
 
 
rckrzy1
Elite Veteran
Location: Hurst Texas

How is something designed to be bullet proof by JK and tested by JK
failing ? What has been Synergy's response ?



Wildcat Fuels
09-14-2006 07:30 PM
 
 
heliman
Senior Heliman
Location: Fullerton, CA

Sorry to hear about the mishap. I don't think that the design is a good one as a friction joint is not the correct for a torque tube application.

It's an easy fix:

1)Drill the hole through the collar, torque tube and insert, and insert a bolt and nut.

or

2) Drill the hole through the collar, torque tube and insert, and insert a pin and then secure it with heat shrink tubing.

or

3) Drill the hole through the collar, torque tube and insert, and tap the insert to accept small 2mm or 3mm bolts. It they're short enough, you could still use 4 bolts.


The TT torque tube failed in a few peoples' R60/90 and that was the fix. TT started to use the bolt/nut fix but before that we used the pin and heat shrink tubing fix.

Sorry to hear about the mishap. I don't think that the design is a good one as a friction joint is not the correct for a torque tube application.
09-14-2006 08:05 PM
 
 
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Thunder Power RC . Mikado Modellhubschrauber . GrandRC

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Synergy R/C Synergy N9 > Torque tube failure!
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