RunRyder - Revolution 40 - what to watch out for?

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Antiques or Out of Business > Revolution 40 - what to watch out for?

w8qz
Veteran
Location: Walker, MI - USA

A club member recently gave me Revolution 40, built, complete with really old Futaba gear, an HB 40, and floats. As far as I can tell, it has had very little, if any, run time.

I'd like to do a bit of refurbishing, and get the thing flying. I assume I should at least be able to hover it - maybe fly a few circuits. Are there any really weak areas to watch out for on this machine? Any issues with the tail belt? Any recommendations on what to replace the 'mast bumper' tubing with?

I plan to go to newer radio gear - use my 9C transmitter (and learn how to do 'revo' mixing!!), and add a GWS piezo gyro (non- HH type), along with basic Futaba servos.

I also plan to take the floats off, and adapt some regular skids. How would a set of Raptor 30 skids work - would those be too 'springy' ? I've also got a beat-up set of metal skids I saved off my Raptor 30. If somebody's got a set of original skids available, at a reasonable price, please PM.
EDIT 2006-10-10 - got the original skids for the machine. Also, on looking closely, it's pretty dirty. It must have had some hover attempts, in a dirty place. Will need to be completely disassembled, cleaned, and lubed. Just need the time to do it!

My flying experience so far has been collective machines - a Raptor 30, and a Blade CP. What should I expect when I try to fly this fixed-pitch machine, performance / handling wise?
(Edit 9/5 - picture added)

Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups.

08-28-2006 Over year old.

BarracudaHockey
rrMaster
Location: Orange Park FL

Well it will fly like a pig if you can get it airborne, though my first attemps were with no gyro.

Be careful with head speed management, get it too low trying to get it down and you wont recover.

Good luck! Take a vid if you get it flying.

AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

08-28-2006 Over year old.

heli_headcase
Veteran
Location: Hovering around Atlanta

Clarification...

What BarracudaHockey is trying to say is if or when you take the Revolution into forward flight (fright), bringing it down to hover altitude must be done carefully. Descents are normally done by dropping head speed to lose lift, drop head speed too much and you're asking for trouble. Best technique is to forceably fly the heli down (forward cyclic) and drop the nose to lose altitude and slow the throttle as you bleed off forward speed and recover to hover.

The tail belt should be just tight enough to not let it slip with full nose-right yaw command. Slippage will tear the belt on the pulleys' sharp edges. Grease all those bearings good!

The mast bumper on my Revolution was surgical rubber tubing but you can try thick vinyl, silicone, a combination of two or three. Experiment, you may learn something.

Have fun and DON'T FORGET TO TAKE VIDEOS!!!!!

Share your experience.

Good luck,
Steve
.
.

HHC

So many heli's - too little time...

08-29-2006 Over year old.

v22chap
Senior Heliman
Location: Howe, Indiana

Yea mine would always come down and then make a sharp unexpected (well expected after the first few happened ) left turn right towards me .
It did fly relatively good for non collective and no gyro ,,but then again ,,that was all we had back then .... you had to fly the heli and not depend on electronics to do that for you .

Take the great electronics away and 1/3 or maybe even 1/2 of the pilots today couldn't fly a helicopter.

Larry C ----------Bergen R/C helicopters

08-29-2006 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

heli_headcase
Veteran
Location: Hovering around Atlanta

Slightly OT - Sorry...

Hey Larry,

I'm taking my Du-Bro H-300 out into the public eye next weekend but I'm done trying to fly it without a gyro. Too stressful and I've already proven to myself and some onlookers that it can be done. Now it's time to "enjoy" flying a 32 year old heli!

Here's the Hughes a couple of years ago 'gyroless':

Now I just have to locate my main rotor blades... WOOHOO! Main AND tail blade found!

Steve
.
.

HHC

So many heli's - too little time...

09-02-2006 Over year old.

v22chap
Senior Heliman
Location: Howe, Indiana

Steve ,,, boy that brings back memories ... wish I had the time to get some of my old helis flying again.Keep up the good work and keep sharing the pix too.

Larry

Larry C ----------Bergen R/C helicopters

09-02-2006 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

w8qz
Veteran
Location: Walker, MI - USA

Thanks for the suggestions and pointers. I'll try to get a video of it flying. It may be 'a while' until all is ready to try out - several months, at least.

Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups.

09-06-2006 Over year old.

DJT
Heliman
Location: Dallas, Tx, USA

I remember very slow cyclic response with the Hiller only head. I recall significant improvement by increasing the head dampning by doubling the surgical tubing in the head. In other words, install another piece of surgical tubing over the first piece on both sides of the head block. I think a little soap made a difficult fit a little easier. Post vids if you can. Good luck!

09-08-2006 Over year old.

RAK402
Veteran
Location: Alhambra, CA

I used to fly these all the time (when they were new). They actually fly quite well. The cyclic will seem spectacularly slow if you have been flying modern birds. I am going from memory here, but this is what we used to do:

1) Substitute a Helibably flybar, if you can find one. The Helibably flybar is slightly longer and will provide both more stability and control.

2) The stock paddles were either blue or red (depending on which color the Rev I was. There was a set of improved paddles which were wider and heavier (always molded in yellow plastic). If you can find a set, or if it has them, use them. Another large improvement.

3) Make a clip of some sort to keep the starter belt from jamming in the fan/pulley. This will occurr occasionally with an unrestrained belt and will end your flight in an abrupt and upleasant fashion.

4) The tail drive pulleys are, as someone mentioned above, quite sharp at the center and will, in short order, remove all of the rubber material from the belt. The tail will then slip constantly. Remove the pulleys and turn them (I used to put a shaft in the drill press and hold a file against it) to take the shape edge off and create a rounder profile. You will want to take a file or a dremel tool and restore some semblence of knurling to the new high point of the pulley so the belt will not slip.

5) Loosen the boom or reach in and, while turning the rotor head with your hand slowly, walk the belt up off the front pulley with your finger (kind of like a derailer on a ten-speed bycicly) after you each flying session. Make sure that you reverse the process before you fly again. This will keep the belt from stretching and slipping.

6) Use a clamp on the fuel line if the machine is going to sit for more than a moment with a full tank before you start it. The fuel will drain into the carb and flood the motor, other wise.

09-11-2006 Over year old.

w8qz
Veteran
Location: Walker, MI - USA

Progress!
Got the long 5-40 bolts today for the 'Heli-ball' muffler. It is a perfect fit on the ST 'Bull Ring' .46 I installed. Had to add some little strips of balsa at the edge of the canopy, to get it to stay on. Somebody years ago trimmed the edges too short.

The engine fired up right away - couldn't figure out at first why it wouldn't idle down. Finally realized I had the throttle backwards - duh!

Attempted to hover in my driveway, but found that the swashplate bound up - perhaps due to the temp change / cold. (it's around 20F here right now.) I had no cyclic control, since the servos couldn't move the swash. Once everything had cooled off, things were better. I did get the tail roughly trimmed - at least in the ball park. Much more work is needed.

I think I need to try the flybar mods that RAK402 suggested - maybe try a set of Raptor paddles (or is that sacrilege?) ; also, I need to set up a better dampener. Should there be *any* 'free travel' of the see-saw before it contacts the dampener, or not? (I'm guessing not.)

Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups.

02-23-2008 03:30 AM

RAK402
Veteran
Location: Alhambra, CA

There should be no damper (dampener would give you a wet helicopter).

The held is free swiveling in every direction.

02-24-2008 02:27 AM

w8qz
Veteran
Location: Walker, MI - USA

Well, attempted flying this thing again on the 2nd. At our club grass field, as soon as the machine would get close to lifting off, it tipped forward and to the left, with no visible response to cyclic commands. On the 3rd try, went just a little too far, and whacked the main blades into the soft ground.

(I do have another set of main blades - what is good to use to cover them - Trim Monokote? )

If this is a flyable machine, I obviously can't fly it like the Raptor I'm used to

(I DO know how to fly that machine!)

I remember seeing a comment in this section recommending a quick lift-off to hover, rather than a nice gradual takeoff. Right now, I'm kinda scared to try that - not sure what it would do in the air

Next attempt will be on a smooth surface - paved parking lot. Maybe that will help?

Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups.

04-07-2008 01:11 PM

RAK402
Veteran
Location: Alhambra, CA

The original kits were shipped with Fascal for blade covering.

I worked at GMP for a while, and we used (and shipped in kits), shelf paper.

Monokote trim also works extremely well.

Make sure that you soak the blade root in CA, or fiberglass it, where the bolts go through. It needs to be both fuel proofed and re-enforced.

I am still curious about your comment about dampers. Can you descibe what you see? There should be no damper. The head should swivel in all planes, very freely.

The cyclic is going to be very slow (the following rate is terrible). You will have to anticipate control movements for the head. Once you get used to it, it should be pleasant enough to fly.

04-07-2008 03:35 PM

BarracudaHockey
rrMaster
Location: Orange Park FL

There was a dampener on the top of the main shaft. Really it was just an oversized hunk of hard fuel line if memory serves. The head would teeter and this would prevent it from fully contacting the main shaft.

AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

04-07-2008 04:08 PM

RAK402
Veteran
Location: Alhambra, CA

Barracuda Hockey,

For the first time, I am going to dispute something you have said (the planets must be out of alignment).

Respectfully (and on bended knee), there is no damper on a Revolution I or II. There was a piece of surgical rubber on the shaft, in the attempt (and I mean attempt) to limit the degree to which the head could flap in order prevent boom strikes (it did not work well).

The head is free floating in all directions.

The Mantis, had a molded rubber insert (round with a slot in it) to try to act as a damper. This damper was in the center hole of the See-saw (what would be called a yoke now). This was intended to limit flapping and allow the head to exert some force on the shaft as it tried to flap-much like the spring on the Cricket head).

Often, as the head on the Mantis tried to flap, the rubber insert acted as a brake, restricting feathering (and all cyclic movement). Not pretty.

(Seriously, I do have great respect for you and read your posts often. And it does feel weird to dispute your comments).

My apologies.

04-07-2008 05:52 PM

BarracudaHockey
rrMaster
Location: Orange Park FL

hehe no worries, I wont bite.

You're correct, I was calling that hunk of surgical tubing on the main shaft a dampener.

I forgot about that design on the Mantis but though I helped a guy with one, I never owned one, the Revolution scared me enough that I didn't give it another go till I got a Concept 30. Though I saw a few Schluters, Kavans, and even a home built actually fly.

AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

04-07-2008 06:45 PM

RAK402
Veteran
Location: Alhambra, CA

Barrcuda Hockey,

Thank you.

I flew Revolution I's and Helibaby's for years, starting in 1976 (I still have both, although the Helibaby is crash damaged). The Helibaby will probably, eventually, get restored. The Revolution will probably get cleaned up, but I doubt it will ever fly again due to lack of parts (although the Rev I is essntially copy of the Helibaby, almost none of the parts are interchangeable, and the hardware is SAE as opposed to metric).

Both of these were very reliable machines, but the slow following rate and very quick tail rotor response (along with no gyro) made them pretty interesting to get used to.

I do miss flying them (as well as Crickets), although the new stuff flies much better.

D@mn, I am too old, and it is too hard to get up off the "bended knee" now!

04-07-2008 06:58 PM

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Antiques or Out of Business > Revolution 40 - what to watch out for?

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