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e-MS Composit Hornet > MS Composit Scale A-Star AS 350, Ecureuil AS350 with triple rotor head
 
 
nicotom
Heliman
Location: france

Hi all

I'm french so ... sorry for my english.

I have baught this wonderfull as350 (painted like SAF) and now I try to setup it.
But i have some problems with the tail rotor.
When the 350 rotor speed increase, it turn on the left. I try to fix it but it is on the maximum.

So if someone who has it could help me to setup, it would be great !!

I will add some picts later.

Thanks

Nicotom
04-12-2007 Over year old.
 
 
DarkHorse1
Senior Heliman
Location: Gloucester UK

Hi,
Assuming the tail mechanics are setup OK... If the gyro is in Heading Hold mode then make sure that any REVO mixing (throttle->rudder) is OFF or the HH gyro will get confused.
Alternatively, if the gyro is in standard rate mode then you will need to trim and add a REVO mix on the Tx.
04-12-2007 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
nicotom
Heliman
Location: france

Hi

I have a little question:
in which direction have you assembled the part E229 ?

like the picture of the top or that of bottom ??




thanks
04-13-2007 Over year old.
 
 
DarkHorse1
Senior Heliman
Location: Gloucester UK

Top image is correct. Make sure the yoke screws square on to the brass sleeve or you'll get odd tail rotor tracking. May have to open the holes for the blade grip pins to fit and run smoothly. I have found this area to be a bit sticky or jumpy on a fresh build causing slightly jerky tail holding.
Also note that as this is the X-3D tail assembly mounted on the other side of the boom, there is the potential for the yoke to unscrew as the rotation is reversed. I had a weak fitting yoke that did unscrew in flight and lost tail pitch control. Luckily very near the ground and immediately hit throttle kill switch without damage. The reason the yoke had a weak thread was because as usual I miss threaded the yoke and used a soldering iron to heat up the stand alone brass slider and get it to seat square in the yoke, resulting in a soft thread. CA fixed it.

Some X-3d tail setup tips here (quicker to press Ctrl+F and search for tail).
04-14-2007 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
nicotom
Heliman
Location: france

Hi all

I'm still working on it.
No fly yet.

THis is some picturs.

The body painted !!

I have noticed the distances because i'm not sure it is good.
Coult you tell me if it good or too small ?
Specially for the first oné (HS55 for tail rotor).

HS55 for Tail


Tail rotor


Main rotor



Thanks a lot !!
04-15-2007 Over year old.
 
 
DarkHorse1
Senior Heliman
Location: Gloucester UK

I think 10 to 12 mm servo horns would work better. How does it fly?
05-03-2007 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
DarkHorse1
Senior Heliman
Location: Gloucester UK

Ecureuil Faster FF video

Yep it's still in one piece so here's another one :



...MS-Ecureuil-AS350-Take2-FasterFF.wmv
38Mb 3.8 mins 50fps WMV format
05-28-2007 10:36 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
DarkHorse1
Senior Heliman
Location: Gloucester UK

> Heli PIC:
> At this time 25mph seems to be the max manageble FFF speed.
> Let me know if there is any other thing we can do to better
> its FFF performance.

... helped by a combination of some pre-emptive forward cyclic (with respect to any wind direction) and high angle tail stabilisers at moderate speed (30º to 40º). Plus setup CofG +10mm and some forward trim. More RPM would help, at the expense of flight times.
Generally flight is easier to command with the upper swash advance offset to straighten up the cyclic input orientation.
Plus I run -45% expo for soft friendly cyclic stick centres.

Not sure how fast the heli is in the video... estimate stock ~2.3K rpm is fine for scale cruising 10 to 30mph (maybe more?), below 2.1K and the cyclic goes all mushy in a breeze. Running 2.6K would give another 5mph to top FF speed (based upon my higher Kv motor setup and tip speed numbers).

Additional 3 blades estimate with the 1150kv EM350 motor.
05-30-2007 11:04 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Heli PIC
Senior Heliman
Location: Petaluma, CA USA

That is about as good as I can get. I noticed that you have the horizontal stablizer tilted to prevent nosing up during FFF. I think excessive pitch compensation will result in unnecessary aerodynamic drag. I have it setup so that it is nose heavy. It seems to work pretty well.
I am in the process of redoing the body. After I have it all put together again, I will try to balance all the rotating masses and increase the rotor rpm. Maybe in July or so, I will have my video posted.

Happy flying
05-31-2007 04:03 AM
 
 
DarkHorse1
Senior Heliman
Location: Gloucester UK

> horizontal stablizer tilted to prevent nosing up during FFF. I think
> excessive pitch compensation will result in unnecessary aerodynamic drag.

Yes I found the high angle stabiliser helped noticeably at medium to high air speeds, effectively a ~4 inch square elevator that has little effect until +15 mph (I think). The extreme angle is reduced when the attitude angle of the heli in FF is taken into account. I could not see the recommended +5º value being any use when the heli is tilting forward in FF and the stabiliser aerofoils are inverted anyway. sure it will be added drag though I'm not sure how they interact in the swept back downwash in FF.
I felt the FF handling characteristics were improved, try a high angle and see what you think.

How nose heavy is your setup? Difficult to get the CofG point sometimes but where do you estimate it to be?

Hope all goes well for you and you can post a video for us soon .

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I'm not stressing the collective very much when using the 8A MS-116 with the 12A EM-350 1150 rpm/v motor. Only briefly hit full collective a couple of times in the video and never max'd out in FF. Full pitch is high around 12º to 15º when statically measured but I suspect the flexible GF blades may be twisting under load and reducing or delay actual in flight pitch.
05-31-2007 08:25 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Heli PIC
Senior Heliman
Location: Petaluma, CA USA

Sorry for the delayed reply. Since I am using a standard size PCM receiver, I am able to have my CG 1cm in front of the mast. With forward CG, FFF up to 25 mph can be easily obtained. My horizontal stabilizer is set at recommended 5 degrees. Since mine is nose heavy, I noticed that transitioning from FFF to hover can be tricky at times, especially when going downwind. I have +/-10 degrees for the collective and rpm set at 2300.

I just finished rebuilding the body of my AS350. I will post pictures and inflight video as soon as they become available.
07-22-2007 10:04 AM
 
 
Heli PIC
Senior Heliman
Location: Petaluma, CA USA

FFF issue has been resolved with -9 to +9 linear pitch curve and 0,40,60,80,100 on the throttle curve. Aparrently I wasn't carrying enough rotor rpm at low power setting which made trasitioning from FFF to hover difficult. With the new throttle curve, it now can do quick stop from FFF with ease without loosing tail authority at the bottom of the flare. FFF is 25+ mph, may be even close to 30 mph without pitching up. 1 cm forward CG really makes FFF managible. My CCPM swash mix is set at 50% for both pitch and roll instead of the recommended value of 25% pitch and 40% roll. I initially used negative expo for pitch and roll. I now have it at 0 expo for better cyclic response during windy conditions.
07-27-2007 01:59 AM
 
 
DarkHorse1
Senior Heliman
Location: Gloucester UK

Excellent!
It does take a little while to dial in the setup to suit, learning as we go.

I think I'm still running:
Swash menu:
Ail: 55% (may go further)
Ele: 55% (may go further)
Pit: 29% (+/-12º to 15º), dial in more until rotor RPM starts to sag at full punch out. With a high throttle curve to maintain ~2350 rpm across the pitch range.

Cyclic and rudder rates/expo for easier scale flight:
Ail Dual rate 75% Expo -45%
Elev Dual rate 90% Expo -45%
Rud Dual rate 100% Expo -55% (tail setup dependant)

Just takes the edge off the roll axis, flyer's preference though.
07-27-2007 10:17 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Heli PIC
Senior Heliman
Location: Petaluma, CA USA

I think it's capable of doing 30+ miles. Due to its small size, I have to circle back before it reaches its max forward velocity.
Thumbs up to MS Composit's first scale micro with amazing performance. The only draw back is that the rotor does not have enough inertia (even at 2300rpm) for autorotation flare. I have tried it from different altitudes and airspeeds and still needed to execute power recovery in the middle of flare to save the bird from crashing.
I will try to have pictures ready by next week.
Happy flying
Hiko
07-27-2007 08:12 PM
 
 
FrankC
Heliman
Location: Bradenton, Florida

DarkHorse1, that is a great video of your helicopter. What kind of camera are you using?
10-09-2007 03:12 AM
 
 
DarkHorse1
Senior Heliman
Location: Gloucester UK

Thanks, the camera is quite junk (runs on 2 good lithium cells from an old 3s pack), see here what I sent in a email once before to a fellow flyer:

It's a near first generation JVC (DVL9200) DV tape hand cam and shoots PAL 25fps interlaced. It's really poor for anything other than RC video's and really would prefer something that could shoot clear 30fps 640x480. I originaly FireWire dump to some DV compatible format, edit the sequence in Pinnacle Studio9 then render to a low compression large 1gb DV 720x586 format. Then with TMPEGEnc 3.0 Express I double the frame rate from 25fps up to 50fps whilst simple unpacking the interlace lines into new frames (fakes every other line), plus some sharpening filter and boost the luminosity, try to bring out a bit of colour. Then compromise WMV compress for web quality and size, chopping down to 360x288 (only really throwing away 1/2 each line width given the fake lines that get dropped anyway). This makes the most from the noisy data source available.

Depending on sky brightness and the mood of the camera firmware, I often get a black model silhouette on sky backgrounds. To avoid this I try to fly lower and try to get the camera operator to keep the model in the top of the frame to maintain the exposure of a ground shot, plus keeping some speed reference with the ground, especially if it's a clear blue sky (I would prefer some clouds in the sky for speed reference)...

...so I had to fly for him to just point at, hence the close fly past head shots LOL . I have a feel for the type of 'money shots' I want to see and try to fly them twice for the camera and hope the operator gets lucky, some work out, some get cut. Trouble is, whilst thinking about all that too much tends to effect the quality of the flying , particularly if your worrying about radio range and technical...
10-09-2007 08:18 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Razmo
Key Veteran
Location: Chicago

Hey Guys,

I revisiting this thread, since once again I'm thinking about building my 350 kit. That's right, she's still in the box . I think I bought her within a week of it's release. Wow, time flies.

All I have to say is, this thread will come in very handy!!

Raz
03-01-2008 01:21 AM
 
 
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e-MS Composit Hornet > MS Composit Scale A-Star AS 350, Ecureuil AS350 with triple rotor head
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