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e-E-Flite Blade CP CX MCX 400-3D > Homebrew sim cable in an evening...
 
 
ktrout153
Heliman
Location: Mattaponi, VA - USA

I think I had too much coffee last night and I decided to take a stab at a making an interface to FMS. As it turns out, I *happened* to have the parts I needed laying around and (to my surprise) pulled it off.

My biggest stroke of luck is that the connector on the back o' the e-flite transmitter is basically a S-video connector. Like most of you, I have lots o' TV/DVD/DVR stuff laying around including a spare s-video cable that was sacrificed to appease the geek gods.

I had seen this article and decided to try it out:

http://www.engadget.com/2006/03/14/...ght-simulation/

I *happen* to have an oscilloscope and quickly found the pins I needed. I found that pin 1 is the PPM signal and the outer shield is ground.

The method described in the article didn't work at first so I took a stab and tweaked the resistor value. I ended up with a 470Ohm resistor in place of the 10k the article lists.

This is a very quick hack that required only a few parts and minimal effort. Definitely my kind of project! (wait, why do I have an R/C helicopter?)

I can elaborate more if anyone is interested.

It was very nice to use this sim with my transmitter. I think it will end up being very beneficial. The computer joystick was just not giving me the right feel. Now I just need to figure out how to use the sim...


Kilgore Trout
04-26-2006 Over year old.
 
 
bfaulguy
Senior Heliman
Location: Burlington, NJ

Yes, I think many would appreciate an elaborate version of your mod. What does the other end, that goes into the PC, look like? What sim are you using? Is there some kind of free sim available you've downloaded? Post everything about this; it would be great to have here in the RR archives.
04-26-2006 Over year old.
 
 
kingair
Key Veteran
Location: Utah - USA

Yes I agree, please add more details like where exactly is pin 1?
04-26-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
soulbender
Heliman
Location: Modesto, CA

Please elaborate more about it if you can. Can it be done with a S-Video cable and a USB cable. I'm a Mac user and Mac's aren't built with the old serial and parallel ports anymore its all USB 2.0 and Firewire.
04-26-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
ktrout153
Heliman
Location: Mattaponi, VA - USA

Basic Directions.

Here goes...

One end is the s-video, the other is a parallel port connector (DB25 male). This cable uses the "ppjoy" driver and is recognized as a generic Windows joystick. I am using it with FMS but I would bet you could use other simulators.

Parts List:

- DB25 Male Connector (Jameco 482687)
- DB25 Hood (Jameco 15085)
- S-Video Cable
- 2222 NPN Transistor (Jameco 178511PS)
- 470 Ohm Resistor (Jameco 107983)

I used the same wiring as the Engadget article. I might have to take some time to make a schematic view of it because the drawing is pretty vague...

My s-video cable had pin 1 labeled (look inside for a very subtle marking). Here is a pinout:

http://www.bnoack.com/index.html?ht...eo/s-video.html

NOTE: This shows the pinout from the back of the connector, so you have to mirror the numbers...

Regarding Macs... I am right there with you. I own two and unfortunately this will not work for them. I have considered other options but they are NOT a single evening projects... How many Mac helicopter sims are there anyway?

Ok. Let me get a schematic done. For posterity and all.


Kilgore Trout
04-27-2006 Over year old.
 
 
ktrout153
Heliman
Location: Mattaponi, VA - USA

Schematic

Here is a clearer version.



Kilgore Trout
04-27-2006 Over year old.
 
 
soulbender
Heliman
Location: Modesto, CA

There is only one Mac sim that I know of.

http://www.alphamacsoftware.com/
04-27-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
ktrout153
Heliman
Location: Mattaponi, VA - USA

That's what I thought...

I have been using that sim on my powerbook with a dual analog USB prior to doing this. Works very well and I wish I could use it with this. There are a lot more options than with FMS.

I am very handy with microcontrollers and I have considered a USB gizmo but I don't know the first thing about joystick drivers in Mac OS X. I know serial ports, but that's about all.


Kilgore Trout
04-28-2006 Over year old.
 
 
cyclicpitcher
Senior Heliman
Location: Memphis TN

Great work! Lots of questions

So you don't need the 5 volts as in the article? you just turn on the radio?

Wouldn't this work on a JR buddy connection? its only two wire as well?

Could the transistor be obtained at a local radio shack?


One last question, is there a link to the latest version of FMS?

THANKS!!!

www.funscale.com
04-28-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
ktrout153
Heliman
Location: Mattaponi, VA - USA

No power is required, except the batteries in you transmitter. I use rechargable NiMH so I don't really care about wasting batteries too much. As you said, just turn the transmitter on.

As soon as the transmitter is turned on, it starts sending signals to the receiver. This happens always and the signal it sends just changes slightly when you move a control. This is how the receiver "knows" if the transmitter is not turned on. I only mention this because a week ago, I didn't really know how it worked. I could've guessed but now I have seen it.

[BEGIN RANT]

This transistor should definitely be a Rat Shack item. I didn't mention them because most of them are becoming horrible for electronics parts. Typical conversation:

RSE (Rat Shack Employee): Can I help you?

Me/You: Yes, I am looking for a NPN transistor.

RSE: Oh [backpeddling], over there [points to the last tiny section of the store with electronic gizmos]

We go to look for it...

Me/You: I can't find it, can you help.

RSE: If you can't find it, we don't have any.

Me/You: [Under breath] Thanks for helping you worthless [choose expletive]

RSE: BTW, can I interest you in a cell phone?

[END RANT]


Regarding JR cables: I couldn't tell you for sure. I don't know what is sent through their cables. It could be just the un-modulated signal (like what I have used) or the full signal that drives the antenna. Without an oscilloscope, I'm not sure how you would determine what is going through the line...

If it is just the un-modulated, this should work find. PPJoy explicitly states that it should work on positive AND negative signals so the differences between Futaba/JR should not be an issue.

Some articles I've seen actually connect directly to the antenna as an interface. So basically this is the modulated signal directly at ~72Mhz. I do believe hackaday.com had one of these a while back but I didn't want to have to shoe horn that kind of thing into my transmitter.


FMS Link: http://n.ethz.ch/student/mmoeller/fms/index_e.html

Hope this helps. And Good Luck


Kilgore Trout
04-28-2006 Over year old.
 
 
cyclicpitcher
Senior Heliman
Location: Memphis TN

need more info

Trying to build the cable but I have a few more questions. I am a bit rusty on my schematics. Can you tell me the legs of the transistor in your drawing? The package on the transistor says Pin 1 is the emitter and Pin 2 is the base and pin 3 is the collector.
My guess the leg with the arrow is the emitter and the base is the flat line?

One other question, The s-video cable drawing does not show the outer shell as the ground. The s-video cable I have does not meter out to have the outer shell as ground and it isnt wired as shield to each end of the cable. The drawing at bnoack.com shows pin 1 as a ground and pin 2 as ground, So if I wire pin 1 as signal can I use pin 2 as ground or solder pin 2 to the shell?

BTW, I bought all the parts at radio sack and the total including a crappy 6 ft s-video cable was about 30 bucks.

Thanks for your help. I really want to build a working cable for FMS and the blade radio!

www.funscale.com
05-10-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
ktrout153
Heliman
Location: Mattaponi, VA - USA

You'd be correct. The arrow is the emitter, the base has the flat line and the collector is on top. Match that up with the pinout of the connector and you should be fine.

Regarding the s-video cable...

The bnoack.com reference shows you the s-video standard but E-flite didn't have to use this standard, just the connector. So don't look to this for anything more than a location for pin 1.

The cable I had a uncoated wire that was the shield wire. This wire was connected to the metal ring that surrounds the pins. I can't say I checked this with more than one cable, so I don't know what differences may exist. Ultimately I had 5 wires, 4 covered and one bare shield. I used the shield and the one that went to pin 1.

$30 dollars? What a ripoff! Sometimes it really amazes me what they get away with.

I would gladly make these cables for anyone interested for $15. I had thought about making them before but thought this price was too high. I guess not...


Good luck and let me know if you have any other questions.


Kilgore Trout.
05-10-2006 Over year old.
 
 
cyclicpitcher
Senior Heliman
Location: Memphis TN

Thanks!

Yeah, 30 bucks, 16 dollars for the crap gold fake bling s-video cable with no shield wire on the shell. I cut the cable length wise looking for a sheild wire and couldnt find anything.

Are you putting your transistor and resistor inside the 25 pin shell?

I am going to make this one for a friend, we knew local radio slack would be high. If you would have said something in your earlier posts. For 15 I would have ordered from you.

www.funscale.com
05-11-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
ktrout153
Heliman
Location: Mattaponi, VA - USA

Sorry about that. Like I said, I thought $15 was a ripoff so I didn't want to mention it...

No shield in the cable? Does any conductor connect to the metal shield ring at all? That is definitely not a high quality cable! Not shielding analog signals is not good practice...

Yes, I did put the resistor and transistor in the hood. I used heat shrink on the connections (those that I could) and I pretty much filled the hood with hot glue afterward to keep the connections from breaking.

Hope this helps.


Kilgore Trout
05-11-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Uncle Buck
Heliman
Location: Stoney Creek, Ont, Canada

First i'd like to introduce myself, my name is Goran and i jsut got my first RC heli, a blade CP and i'm still learning. I hope i can contribute positively here.

I made the cable, i just bent one of the other pins to touch the shield. because my cable also wasn't beeping out shield to shield.

I am having a problem with the ppjoy and trying to add my transmitter? something about the irq i think??

any ideas?

Cheers
05-13-2006 Over year old.
 
 
ktrout153
Heliman
Location: Mattaponi, VA - USA

Somewhere in the ppjoy world, they mention the "debug ppm rc interface" option. With this option turned on, everytime your transmitter sends something your PC speakers should tick. Normally this happens all the time (so you should here a continous "tone" ) but if you are having trouble you won't hear anything. Turn your speakers on and make sure the sound is up...

To verify that you have set ppjoy up correctly, enable this debug option and connect pin 10 to pin 18 on you parallel port. Do this with anything you can get your hands on (wire, paper clip, mangled cotter pin, etc). If you don't hear a tick, ppjoy is not setup correctly. Tweak ppjoy settings and keep trying.

Make sure IRQs are enabled on the parallel port and that the computer assigns it to IRQ 9. I also have the "legacy plug and play" option setup as well. These options can be tweaked in the device manager.

If ppjoy ticks for you, make sure to click "mapping" in the ppjoy control panel and run through the wizard. I basically chose the defaults but just make sure you have at least 4 channels enabled. If you skip this step, things will not work (for some reason).

I hope this helps out some. This is unfortunately the point where I am not too much help because I have no connection with the authors of PPJoy. I will try where I can...


Good Luck

Kilgore Trout
05-13-2006 Over year old.
 
 
FlyinFrick
Heliman
Location: Illinois

How to use cable in FMS...

Hello!

ktrout153, I was hoping that you could help with settings in the simulator (FMS).

I built a cable similar to the design you shared above. I just found an S-video cable (shielded, so the ground ran through the cable) and an old parallel cable. Both were about 6 or 8 feet long, and I split each in the middle. I added the resistor and transistor onto the end of each half of the S-video, then attached the two halves of the parallel cable, hooked to proper pins. Each setup was secured using just heat-shrink tubing. I now have two functional cables, made from two old cables from the "junkbox". I had heat-shrink laying around, so the only cost for this project was for the electronic parts, which I had to get at RatShack (I live in a small town, it was my only option, forgive please...). Was 69 cents apiece for the transistors, buck twenty-nine for pack of 5 resistors. So I have less than a dollar each into these cables. Great Price!! Built exactly as detailed in your schematic.

The cables "work" fine. After getting PPJoy set up properly, I have been trying to get FMS working with the EFlite radio. I can fly around, but I cannot get the "joystick" mapped properly. I have tried extensive different setups, but cannot get the controls to match the "real world".

I think I am having possible problem with the CCPM mixing. It comes from the transmitter? The joystick axes in the simulator are not affected one-at-a-time (so to speak) when moving the sticks on the radio. I cannot map the controller in FMS when two channels (or more?) are being affected by a single stick movement. This is making me think that the transmitter is doing the mixing for CCPM control. Is this correct? Is there a way to work around this? Do I have some other problem, and I am pursuing an untamed ornithoid without just cause?

I hope I have described my problem sufficiently to muster some help from someone out there....

Thanks.
05-13-2006 Over year old.
 
 
ktrout153
Heliman
Location: Mattaponi, VA - USA

Here's my FMS setup:

Throttle is on channel 3 - Inverted
Tail is on 4
Nick is on 2
Roll is on 1
Pitch is on 3 - Inverted.

Rudder, aileron and elevator are set to some random number above 4 because they are not used.

The ccpm mixing is being translated into the simulator from the transmitter. I noticed this when the transmitter was hooked to my oscilloscope. Without using another transmitter, I'm not sure how to avoid this. One noticeable effect is that when you apply throttle, the helicopter pitches forward/rolls slightly.

While this is probably not the most ideal thing to have, it is slight and still very flyable. You can trim out the drift at hover throttle without a problem. I just make sure to calibrate my controls before I use the sim.

Regarding real world conditions... I am starting to play with the FMS *.par file that defines flying characteristics of the models. Right now the models are too easy to fly. I hope to try to match a model to CP characteristics but I have to actually keep my CP in one piece long enough to do it. Until then, I am just going to try to make a more difficult, super-responsive model and see how that goes.


ornithoid? http://mrl.nyu.edu/~dhowe/ornithoids/ or little birds?

I for one welcome our new ornithoid overlords...


Glad to hear you are up and going.

Kilgore Trout
05-14-2006 Over year old.
 
 
penguinchicken
Heliman
Location: PDX

Ok, So I am just dim. Is the base connected to the resistor or is the collecter. I got that emitter thing down. I just don't know what you mean by top or straight line.
I have tried it wired both ways and get a big nada. I am sure I have some setting conflicts to boot!
05-18-2006 Over year old.
 
 
penguinchicken
Heliman
Location: PDX

Ok so I am REALLY DIM!!! I can't get my sys to assign an IRQ to my port. every time I try it says I must restart. When I do it is right back to the setting without an IRQ value, BTW IRQ 9 is not even an option on my machine.
Also how do I find the "PPJOY control panel"???
I am sorry about these retarded questions but I am really not that bright.
Running windows XP
05-18-2006 Over year old.
 
 
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e-E-Flite Blade CP CX MCX 400-3D > Homebrew sim cable in an evening...
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