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Thunder Power RC . Real Raptors . Mikado Modellhubschrauber

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Tandem Rotor Helis Vertol Chinook > Rudder on Vertol
 
 
melsman
Senior Heliman
Location: Atascadero, CA

YSRrider, here's the answer to the forward 'elevator' (cyclic pitch) question:

Let's take the example of forward cyclic. Say you're hovering above the ground about 6 feet, oopps, I mean six inches. When you give forward cyclic, the helo would normally rotate around it's center and the aft end would move upwards and the forward section would move downward, quickly eliminating that six inches to the pavement and smashing the front end into the ground.

So, you have to make the bird pivot around the front instead of the middle. You do that by adding a bit of collective to the aft end to raise the tail in relation to the front, which tilts the whole aircraft forward and thus, with just a little forward tilt on the swash, you get the pitch down/forward movement.

The reverse is true for aft cyclic. The front head gets a bit of collective. Those double heads make for some interesting physics.

Sea story- Taxing the CH-46 was a bear, because of the castering nosewheel (No, the tower doesn't like it when you air taxi a 12 ton helo around the field because you tend to blow things over; like buildings. So we taxi on wheels). Every once in a while you'd overshoot a spot and we'd have to back up. So, we'd pick the nose up about six feet (with the rear wheels on the ground), pump a little collective to get rolling, and taxi backwards! (I thought it taxied better backwards than forwards.) Let's see a tail-rotor helo do that! Always a crowd pleaser.

Hey SENECA, what a great manuever for a scale contest!.

And don't get me started on water landings and water taxing around a lake outside of San Diego.

Ashley
10-31-2002 Over year old.
 
 
YSRRider
Key Veteran
Location: Ingleside/Fox Lake, IL

i understand how it works, basically the same way a conventional heli works, they both have the same behavior. i guess my real question is..... if i had one, could i fly it? why dont any simulators have them on there?? i havent seen any...
10-31-2002 Over year old.
 
 
donlynn
Key Veteran
Location: New Zealand

Gidday
Seneca, So the Hirobo or the Heim is a awesome machine ?

melsman, Go on, tell all sounds quite exciting!!

How do you get on with wind gradient causing transitional lift in one disk before the other ?? what does retreating blade stall do ?

Sounds like a hoot !!
Regards Don
10-31-2002 Over year old.
 
 
melsman
Senior Heliman
Location: Atascadero, CA

Well, if you insist...

We used to practice water landings on a lake outside of San Diego. The CH-46 (nick named 'Frog' because of the way it looked when sitting on the ground. We, being Marines, called it a 'battle frog' ) would float on water somewhat well as long as the blades were spinning (gyroscopic effect kept the heavy, above center engines and tranny from swapping places with the landing gear), so just in case we ever had to ditch at sea, we would practice by going up to a freshwater lake, set down on the water, and taxi around the lake! You had to be careful about how fast you taxied because you didn't want to implode the chin bubbles and swamp the cockpit. It taxied very easily on the water, by the way.

As for wind gradient effects from translational lift, in a hover, it manifested as simple pitch up or down, which you corrected with fore or aft cyclic. You really didn't notice it. In transition to forward flight, both disks go into translational lift at roughly the same time, so the effect is similar to single head helos.

With retreating blade stall, since the heads are turning opposite of each other, the stall occurs on each side of the helo, thus the net effect is simple loss of lift with slight yaw and a lot of scary noise (as the blades start flailing around). I didn't ever experience this first hand because I did not exceed the Vne. I'm not disappointed that I did not experience this...

Ashley
10-31-2002 Over year old.
 
 
andymcallister
Veteran
Location: Palm Beach, Florida

Quote 
I'm not gonna ask.

No no, it wasn't from flying when I should have been working. I originally got the job because someone working for us left, so there was an empty spot, but shes back, so I'm out of a job.........the bi*ch.
10-31-2002 Over year old.
 
 
David B
Heliman
Location: Warren, New Jersey

So Melsman,

If you ever HAD to ditch at sea, how are you supposed to get out of the heli? I can only come up with 2 scenarios:

1) swim away from the heli while the rotors are still turning above your head knowing as soon as they slow down enough you have a 50-50 chance of it chopping your up with the rotors as it rolls on you

2) Wait inside a sinking heli for it to flip over, THEN try to get out and swim like hell.

10-31-2002 Over year old.
 
 
melsman
Senior Heliman
Location: Atascadero, CA

Ditch at sea escape

Actually, David, you do both. It just so happens that this happened to a close friend of mine.

While working with a repelling team off of a ship, he had both engine turbines explode. He (as aircraft commander) set the bird down on the water, and ordered everyone (including the copilot) to get out while he maintained the helo in an upright position.

As they swam away, the rotors slowed, he tilted the bird away from the swimmers and it sank. We're trained to wait until the helo fills with water, take a breath from our emergency air source, pop out the cockpit doors, and swim up to the surface. I did it many times in the 'dunker'.

Unfortunately, my friend became tangled in the cockpit and was dragged to the ocean floor where he drowned. His name was Mark Derickson. He was 32; a father of two. I still drink a beer to him (and other buddies I've lost) every Forth of July. Now that you know his name, feel free to do the same.

Ashley
10-31-2002 Over year old.
 
 
KC
Elite Veteran
Location: WA

I once got knocked over by a kv107's wash (and got a pinecone in the face when I got back up), same machine as a sea knight....theyre big leaf blowers!

I know the full size can auto just fine, but no one answered if the hirobo model can can auto? why....deadstick of course.
theres also a heim 60 size tandem too! sport-scale w/ flybars. it doesnt seem to be in production anymore?
10-31-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
kaltman
Senior Heliman
Location: Norway

r60fan

You can auto The Hirobo Vertol ! I have never did it , but a friend of mine has done it several times with mine!

And The marines in Sweden has Vertols that can land on water also!!

I realy miss Kalt Helies
11-01-2002 Over year old.
 
 
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Tandem Rotor Helis Vertol Chinook > Rudder on Vertol
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