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Advantage Hobby . Revolution Models . CarbonXtreme

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Photos and Movies > Me and the Schweizer NEW PICS
 
 
Skiddz
Veteran
Location: Carlsbad, CA

R22 beta II max seat weight is 240 lbs. I can relate to the tight squeeze in the 22 as I'm 6'2" @ 225lbs. I do like cornbread too.

A helicopter is 10,000 parts spinning rapidly around an oil leak.
05-01-2006 Over year old.
 
 
fitenfyr
rrProfessor
Location: Port Orchard, Washington

And actually the max seat weight is a CG issue.
I haven't heard of the seat crush issue....I thought only the military had requirements for seats to absorb impacts like that.

Overall if you put anybody in the 200+ range in an R22 with a pax of any weight you BETTER check the weight/balance and Lateral CG REALLY well before you take off.

It is waaaayyyyy easy to get out of limits in those things and they will still take off and cruise about the same. Bit more MP if you are really noticing.

Problem is you find out about it at the most in opportune time like on a check ride when you are doing an OGE hover on a 80 deg humid day.

Then when the DE rolls the power off for a 180 auto and you start to over speed faster than you can correct for it....

I hate pink slips.

Jason Stiffey
Fly Fast....Live Slow...
05-01-2006 Over year old.
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helibad
Senior Heliman
Location: Cameron Park, CA

Rented birds & overspeeds

I always think about how many inadvertant over-speeds school helicopters are subjected to while students are piddling arround during their solo time that go un-reported
05-01-2006 Over year old.
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MAVRICK
Veteran
Location: Las Vegas NV

Wats the max wieght for the Schweizer 300
05-01-2006 Over year old.
 
 
moorecj98
Senior Heliman
Location: na

2050 pounds gross weight
most 300's comes in at 1190 empty weight. If you have a 19gal aux youre looking at another 114.00 pounds
05-01-2006 Over year old.
 
 
helibad
Senior Heliman
Location: Cameron Park, CA

Depends

The max weight depends on if your in an older A or B model or a newer C or CBi model. The CBi is rated for less weight so it can have extended times for parts life.
05-01-2006 Over year old.
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moorecj98
Senior Heliman
Location: na

He's flying the c model in the pic so thats what info i gave out
05-01-2006 Over year old.
 
 
MAVRICK
Veteran
Location: Las Vegas NV

How do you tell the differents between the 300s
05-02-2006 Over year old.
 
 
moorecj98
Senior Heliman
Location: na

The 269 A has a short vertical fin and the instrument panel runs between the seats and only seats 2 people and less horsepower and also the pilot is right seat instead of the left like the 300c. 269b has the same instrument panel as the 300c but more horsepower than the A model. Most of the A models had a manual clutch instead of the electrical one like the 300c. The 300c has a HIO-360 engine and is rated at 190hp at 3200 rpm
05-02-2006 Over year old.
 
 
helibad
Senior Heliman
Location: Cameron Park, CA

Deductive reasoning...

I don't think Schweizer produced any A or B models, only C & CBi.
The picture showed a Schweizer logo. The CBi's have only been out for a few years & they have a big CBi Graphic on the fuel tank (none in the picture).

You can also tell from the consol that it's a newer version & fuel injected- no chance it's a re-painted/refurbished A model.

The real way to tell is to look at the POH (Pilot Operating Handbook) that is unique to that helicopter (every Heli has their own issued to that peticular heli).

Hope that helps!
05-02-2006 Over year old.
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helibad
Senior Heliman
Location: Cameron Park, CA

300 Trivia

Wonder what that little "Spoiler" above the bubble is for?

The Army used 300's for training pilots. During throttle chops, the 300 tends to nose dive. After enough soldiers died during botched autos, they added that little spoiler to help keep it from diving so bad (as well as the one on the tail!)
05-02-2006 Over year old.
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helibad
Senior Heliman
Location: Cameron Park, CA

B models

B models also have electric clutch engaugement.
05-02-2006 Over year old.
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moorecj98
Senior Heliman
Location: na

No Schweizer didnt make any a or b models only hughes tool compny
05-02-2006 Over year old.
 
 
moorecj98
Senior Heliman
Location: na

Not all b models did
05-02-2006 Over year old.
 
 
moorecj98
Senior Heliman
Location: na

Schweizer bought them out in 1988
05-02-2006 Over year old.
 
 
moorecj98
Senior Heliman
Location: na

MAVRICK If you get to fly a A or B model with a manual clutch i think you would like . Quick runup time and a little more safty margin also. When i worked at a Schweizer service center we had about 10 300c owners that converted over to manual that needed quicker runup time.
05-02-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Skiddz
Veteran
Location: Carlsbad, CA

Quote 
And actually the max seat weight is a CG issue.
I haven't heard of the seat crush issue....I thought only the military had requirements for seats to absorb impacts like that.


Seat crush, not CG. Run the numbers. I have an Excel spreadsheet I ran up a long time ago that'll calc zero fuel and max fuel (without exceeding max gross) lateral and longitudinal CGs and plots the locations on the CG chart. (I'd be happy to e-mail it to you if you wanna run 'em yourself or check the math) Robinson will tell you it's a seat crush limit.

Assuming 875lbs empty weight (pretty much standard for a new 22 leaving the factory - give or take a few lbs) even at 300 lbs solo pilot weight and full fuel, gross is 1363 lbs (7 shy of max gross) and long CG is 98.32 empty, 99.5 full fuel. Lateral is 2.23 empty, 1.48 full. Within the CG limits. It's not until 333lbs of solo pilot weight anything goes out of the envelope and then it's the zero fuel lateral GC that's out - just BARELY.

Quote 
Overall if you put anybody in the 200+ range in an R22 with a pax of any weight you BETTER check the weight/balance and Lateral CG REALLY well before you take off.


I can fly with a 200 lb pax and about 11 gals of fuel and still be within CG limits right at max gross. Can't go real far with that config, but it does fall WELL within lateral CG limits and still have a little play room before I'm out the front of the envelope. Now MINIMUM solo weight could be a CG issue, but it's more of an autorotation issue. Not enough total weight to get the sink rate up enough to drive the rotors.

Quote 
It is waaaayyyyy easy to get out of limits in those things and they will still take off and cruise about the same. Bit more MP if you are really noticing.


Um, no. It's easy to go well over gross, but to get out of CG limits, you've really got to jack up the loads. Higher weight, high temps, high humidity will all affect MAP.. Solo, I hover at a tick below 18".. Dual with my buddy or an instructor, 20-21". You should be checking hover power regardless. If you can hover, you can fly.

A helicopter is 10,000 parts spinning rapidly around an oil leak.
05-02-2006 Over year old.
 
 
moorecj98
Senior Heliman
Location: na

oh MAVRICK the max cabin weight on the 300c is 600.
05-02-2006 Over year old.
 
 
fitenfyr
rrProfessor
Location: Port Orchard, Washington

Quote 
If you can hover, you can fly.


Sure, but can you auto without tearing the head off, folding the blades or cutting the tailboom off?

We are talking 1992 training here so I am not up to date on the W/B on an R22 these days.
I sold my POH and flight ops manual a while back as the dust was getting pretty thick.

I also think the newest R22's are different than the A and B models I was flying.

Anyway you look at it with that much weight in an R22 as you said there is little purpose anymore and you are pushing the limits to the edge.
To me in a helicopter that is just not a good idea.

Jason Stiffey
Fly Fast....Live Slow...
05-02-2006 Over year old.
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Skiddz
Veteran
Location: Carlsbad, CA

If you can hover, you can fly. Now I didn't say I'd load the thing up to 1500 lbs and do so but at max gross, if you can hover IGE without blowing the MAP gauge out of the panel, you can fly and autos won't be a problem as long as you manage the rpm. Robsinson did/does all their cert testing at max gross.

Now a whole lot of diference between the Alphas, Betas and Beta IIs. New engines as the model progressed, but those changes were for better altitude performance. CG envelopes and weights are identical for those three and the Standard's envelope is very similar, but with a slightly lower max gross.

Yep, two big guys up front with a little over an hour of fuel isn't of much use, but one big guy up front (me) with full fuel will get you several hundred miles down the road at a pretty decent clip.

BTW: Would I be correct in assuming you're in the fire fighting helicopter pilot "club"? If that's the case, how does a helo pilot get there? I'm about 2 months away from getting my CFI-H and 3 from my CFII-H and fire fighting is where I want to be - preferrably in an S-64.

A helicopter is 10,000 parts spinning rapidly around an oil leak.
05-02-2006 Over year old.
 
 
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