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Modefo's RC Helicopters . XHELI.COM . Autography FlightPower

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Speed - Performance - Drag Race > Anyone used a GPS to measure their heli's top speed?
 
 
meltr
Senior Heliman
Location: London, UK

I was thinking about measuring the speed of a heli as it flies past
an observer by using the doppler shift in the sound it makes. For
people who already have a laptop or palm top it'd just need some
software and no additions to the heli is needed.

Mel.
01-27-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Pleskini
Senior Heliman
Location: Houston, TX

Another really interesting tool to try and use would be something I have used in performace cars. Its called a gtech analyzer. It measures acceleration, deceleration, max speed, ave speed, and a whole host of other features. Its pretty small, about the size of a small radar detector and runs on dc current of course. You could post up some pretty cool stats especially the ones from drag racing helis.
01-27-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
aeromorris
Senior Heliman
Location: Murfreesboro, TN

That sounds like a pretty novel idea. The only problem I see with that is the engine is continuously changing rpm and therefore frequency. I bet if you sampled the heli in a hover your measurement system would falsely indicate a velocity.
In addition you'd also have to fly the heli in a fairly straight line. Any deviation from straight and level flight would indicate a change in velocity (direction and magnitude). Pretty interesting concept though. I guess I never really gave it much thought...
-J
01-27-2003 Over year old.
 
 
ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

It has been some time since I've worked with nav equipment so I may be a bit rusty.

But one thing to keep in mind, especially with regard to GPS (or any other measurement device) is that there are many parameters which can affect the accuracy of the readings you are getting.

A GPS is a combination hardware/software device. It has to track radio signals from a satelite in space and measure subtle differences in these signals as received.

The on board computer and software algorithms must average many readings to filter out noise and such. The averaging algorithms have all sorts of software PLLs in them. There is reaction time and other things to think about.

To give the MOST accurate positioning measurements they will use long PLL times. This will make a device lousy (inaccurate) for use while moving. For moving results, they need shorter PLL periods. This will make it more accurate for movement, yet less accurate for fixed position accuracy.

Most these days use adaptive algorithms. That is they may dynamically change the PLL loops to try to determing if the GPS receiver is moving or if it is stationary.

As you can imagine, accelleration can really make it even more complicated. GPS receivers tend to use accelleration prediction to determine the optimum PLL settings.

All of this is a compromise.

The gist of what I am saying is that GPS is not 100% accurate, 100% of the time! You have better results if you are stationary (for position or alititude), or moving at a constant rate (no accelleration/deaccelleration).

The big question for heli measurements would be, how long do I have to fly at a constant speed to be able to get a reasonably accurate speed reading? How much error is acceptable?

This goes for most speed measurement devices too, even police Radar! Devices have certain parameters they are designed to work with. If you go outside of this design performance envelope, then your results will vary.

Often there are GPS receivers which are designed for different markets. One designed for a land based use (handheld, or use in an automobile) and designed for use at ground speeds from zero to (maybe) 200 MPH maximum will react totally different than one designed for aircraft use (60 MPH minimum to 600 MPH or more). Remember, the faster you go, the less accurate you have to be for position, because at speed you are not in one location for very long!

I think most people think that GPS is hi-tech, so therefore it is all knowing and all accurate! This may not be the case!

Just take into account the design parameters. Longer straight path runs at constant speeds will give you the most accuracy. The question is how long do you have to go to get a reasonable accuracy. Simply getting repeatability in your results may not give you that answer.

Also, as someone else mentioned, you are reading calculated ground speed, there is no adjustment for windspeed, etc.

I hope this helps a bit, and doesn't confuse too many people. I'm just trying to help.

---
Rich
07-23-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
manzer74
Key Veteran
Location: Marlboro, NY

i have a garmin etrex i have been wanting to strap to my rappy, but the last thing i need to screw up and dump the heli carrying a $250 gps on it.. ouch!

Make sure you get all the pieces...
09-18-2003 Over year old.
 
 
NEM3
Veteran
Location: New Lenox, Il

ImRich, I read your post. Very informative. But I can tell you with experience that the readings most are getting from there GPS are about as accurate a reading as one can get. If you have ever been in a vehicle with a Digital Dash. Then you know how slow the readout is. Most GPS's I have seen are about the same as far as measureing speed. But a lot of it has to do with the number of satelites it has locked. I have had times were I can get my Garmin Emap down to 20 foot accuracy, Yet the speed readout take an abnormally long amount of time. Why, I have only 3 satelites locked. I have had the experience twice in the 3 years I have had mine of having all 12 satelite channels locked and close to 100 percent. The speed readout is quicker and much more accurate. But the only way I have been able to measure it is with my vehicle. Which in its own unperfect world could be wrong also.

I don't mean to sound like I am contradicting you. Just wanted to add a little info and my personal experience. I think that the current brew of handheld GPS devices are great for what us heli guys are trying to do. With a good sat. lock I would say you would need to keep your heli straight and level for 5 seconds to get a decent speed measurement, and 20 seconds if you want an indisputable measurement.

But one important thing a lot of you are forgetting is the added weight of the actual GPS unit itself. Your killing you speed with it strapped in.

Also, Manzer74, I crashed with my Garmin EMap once. Wasn't a bad crash, no chicken dance. And it survived just fine. Just be sure to wrap it by itself out of the heli with some foam. Then install it into the heli with more foam holding it.
09-19-2003 Over year old.
 
 
flyboy
Elite Veteran
Location: California

Got the little Caliber camcopter30 up to 76MPH.
09-19-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Heli_Kiwi
Heliman
Location: Sydney, Australia

Some of those speeds are pretty good. Some posts here saying they 'only' got 100 mph.
08-08-2004 Over year old.
 
 
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Speed - Performance - Drag Race > Anyone used a GPS to measure their heli's top speed?
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