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CanoMod . Futaba-RC . A Main Hobbies

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Gohbee Aviation Stinger 30-90 > Gohbee / TZ / Raptor 90 Heli with BME modified G90 Gas Engine
 
 
Franconia2
Heliman
Location: Shrewsury, MA

Krtek,

Very cool
03-12-2006 Over year old.
 
 
AnnihilaT
Key Veteran
Location: The Netherlands Force: The Dark Side

BME 90 gasser engine came in today! Along with servos, and some various other pieces. Now i can start sorting how to mount this thing. Looks pretty straightforward but will need some slight mod to the engine mount tabs themselves or to the mounting plate for the heli. Havent decided which route to take yet. The throttle is a bit weird as well and will need some tinkering. All in all it doesnt look like it will be too hard.









A day without sunshine is like, well, night.
03-13-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
SkateFreak
Key Veteran
Location: Cambs UK/Luton

Hey,
I hate to divert the attention for a minute but what are your first impressions of the actual 90 kit?
I'd br tempted but its a tear between that and an R90?!
Let us know

Best regards

-Jvr

Non-3D heli pilots are planker spys trying to bring down the heli community from the inside - Topher
03-14-2006 Over year old.
 
 
AnnihilaT
Key Veteran
Location: The Netherlands Force: The Dark Side

well there isnt really much difference in the frames at all. I think the mold had to have been made from a raptor 90 frame to begin with or its the same mold and factory making them. The only real difference is the head and it comes full metal and flybar on the bottom instead of the top with adjustable ball link positions for different flying styles. Id have to say that its superior to a TT 90 just for all the metal you get and because the price is so much lower than a TT 90.





A day without sunshine is like, well, night.
03-14-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Franconia2
Heliman
Location: Shrewsury, MA

Throttle

MFIS-2,


I mounted this engine in an X-Spec but the throttle set up should be the same in a Raptor.
The carb comes with a small ball on throttle, I ended up replacing it with a standard ball, actually is was a ball stud from swash plate. This allowed me to use standard links and rods for the throttle likage. The linkage needs to move up/down on this carb rather than the standard front/back. I built a sea saw arm and bolted it to the frame. This way you can mount the throttle servo in the servo tray which helps keep the machine balanced.

Looking forward to more pictures and updates.
03-14-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Harris
Senior Heliman
Location: A Greek in Cyprus

MFIS-2

The KoolFlight Systems Ultimate BEC produces only 3 Amps continuous. That is not enough for the 4 9252's + gyro + all other electronics. I would recommend the Arizona dual voltage heli regulator from Fromeco. I've got two of them and they are great!

Also, if you go for the 601/611 gyro you can only use the 9251/9256 servo, not the 9254 that you are planning to use.

Please let us know how you are getting on with the BME engine. Have you given any thought to the Webra 91-P5 HI engine?

Harris
03-15-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Harris
Senior Heliman
Location: A Greek in Cyprus

KRTEK,

Any problems with overheating?

Harris
03-15-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Krtek
Heliman
Location: Czech

Harris

Harris
Any problems with overheating? NO, 95 - 110 Celsius
03-15-2006 Over year old.
 
 
AnnihilaT
Key Veteran
Location: The Netherlands Force: The Dark Side

Quote 

The KoolFlight Systems Ultimate BEC produces only 3 Amps continuous. That is not enough for the 4 9252's + gyro + all other electronics.



You sure about this? From what i understand many are using them on E-Raptors with no problems. Same amount of electronics to run.

Additionally, from the specs:

Output Current: 3 amps continuous / 5 amps up to 5 minutes





A day without sunshine is like, well, night.
03-15-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
flytech
Veteran
Location: Sunland, CA

this is true based on the data on their page:

http://www.koolflightsystems.com/ultimatebec.htm

however, my koolflight runs all servos, gyro and RX on my 90SE under hard 3d fine:

03-15-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Harris
Senior Heliman
Location: A Greek in Cyprus

3 amps is probably ok when you are doing hovering, mild circuits etc but not for hard-core 3D with all servos moving heavy loads fast. It also depends on the heli itself. 90 size helis are much more demanding than say 30's or 50's.

A little binding can also make a phenomenal difference in servo current consumption. It is very easy to make a single 9252 draw 1.5-2 amps. Most people can get away with it because the servos work mostly one at a time (on mechanical mixing helis) or under light loads (in CCPM models) but occasionally they may experience lockouts, gyro resets, etc plus the heli appears slower under certain conditions. The worst case senario is when the regulator shuts down because it has started overheating.

Something else you should be aware of is that most regulators in the market are of the switching type, which means that the voltage they produce is contaminated with lots of high frequency (20-30 KHz) noise. I was using the Duralite Batteries regulators until I measured 200-300 mV of output noise under a 2 amp load! I replaced them with the Fromeco ones, which are linear, i.e. not of the switching type, and the noise dropped to less than 1 mV!!!

I am sure you can find a lot of data on the subject if you do a search here on RunRyder or other forums.

Harris
03-15-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
flytech
Veteran
Location: Sunland, CA

Quote 
3 amps is probably ok when you are doing hovering, mild circuits etc but not for hard-core 3D with all servos moving heavy loads fast


ok, whatever.. i have a living example that i fly daily.
03-15-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Harris
Senior Heliman
Location: A Greek in Cyprus

flytech,

I am not saying that it doesn't work, all I 'm saying is that the current going to the servos is limited. This may simply mean that if you had a better regulator your heli would fly better!

After all, the UBEC is a switching regulator with only 22 gauge wires. You can't expect too much from it.

Personally, I prefer to spend an extra $30 and be certain that when I fly my $1500+ pride and joy I will not lose it because of a stupid regulator deciding to give up at the most crucial moment... Your way of thinking is different. I respect your opinion although I don't agree with it. After all this is a discussion forum. If we all agreed there wouldn't be much discussion, would it?

Harris
03-15-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
AnnihilaT
Key Veteran
Location: The Netherlands Force: The Dark Side

I dont think flytech took issue with your opinion or your preference for the fromeco regulator or your reasoning behind using it instead of other alternatives. However, what i take issue with and what im sure flytech took issue with is the fact that you seem to imply that it will simply not work at all if you fly 3D and Flytech has videos of hard 3D on RR which prove otherwise.

Having said that, I think i will order the regulator you mentioned because i am of the same opinion that the extra money for the added insurance is a good thing plus i like the fact that it has dual outputs with different voltages. This is ideal for my ignition system on the gas engine. So anyway im glad you piped in but just dont quite agree with the assertion that the KF ubec will not work at all. Ive seen and heard otherwise.





A day without sunshine is like, well, night.
03-15-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
flytech
Veteran
Location: Sunland, CA

my apologees. i was being defensive.
03-15-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Franconia2
Heliman
Location: Shrewsury, MA

Ignition Battery

MFIS-2

The dual regulator option sounds very cool and seems like the right solution for an electronic ignition, does anyone use this setup today?

You may want to contact C.H. electonics who makes the ignition system for the BME G90.
When I spoke with the owner a few weeks ago, I asked him about using a dual output voltage regulator and a lipo battery to drive both the servos and igition. He stongly reccomended against it. Something about the draw from the batery of 1-2A for a few miliseconds would interfere with the servos. Also the wire connecting the iginiton to regulator./battery could cause interference as it would be close to the servo and receiver.
He reccomended a 1100mah NiMH 2/3A pack (2.4oz) mounted away from the radio gear, which will provide over 2.5 hrs of Flight time.

I currently use a NiCD pack (the other pack is on order) mounted under the fuel tank and have not experienced any hits, glitches or twitchy tail in 20 Flights with the G90.

Dave
03-15-2006 Over year old.
 
 
AnnihilaT
Key Veteran
Location: The Netherlands Force: The Dark Side

Franconia,

What im thinking is that a dual output regulator if done correctly will eliminate the problem of the 1-2A draws from the ignition since both power outputs will be regulated independently the voltage should not be affected on the lead powering the radio and servos by the load on the other lead which will be powering the ignition. Also if you do the harness right the wires dont need to be near the servos / radio.

I really want to run the whole thing off a 2s2p 7000mah lipo battery so this is what im gonna try and just see if i run into any problems.

Yesterday i fit the fan and clutch to the engine and dremeled a very small piece out of the frame for the carb to clear all the way and took measurements to fabricate some add on pieces for the motor mount. Should be able to mount it in there by this weekend and then continue with building. Only thing left to do is some modification to the throttle lever after that and we will be getting darn close to firing this engine up





A day without sunshine is like, well, night.
03-16-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Harris
Senior Heliman
Location: A Greek in Cyprus

Sorry guys, I didn't want to upset you! I considered using the UBEC after reading all the positive comments about it. My .30 heli draws on average 450mA current, so the UBEC should work well. However, I hesitated because of its specs. I used the Duralite Batteries regulators for more than a year with no major issues apart from the odd kick of the tail. I then switched to the Fromeco ones simply because their specs are far superior from anything else currently in the market. When somebody else comes up with a better product I will probably switch to them!

I think that within reason everything we do works, the difference is in the details.

Regarding the dual voltage option of the Fromeco regulators, they were meant to power your servos and receiver at a higher voltage, while still providing 5V to the gyro and rudder servo.

A few weeks ago I tried to connect an on-board glow system (Glow-2 from Ripmax) so that I didn't have to plug in my glow starter every time I needed to start the engine. This particular system needs 3-8V supply to the glow plug, which it then regulates automatically. I powered it from the receiver voltage to avoid adding an extra 5V battery pack. It would draw about 2 Amps whenever I needed to ignite the glow plug. During that time it caused quite a bit of interference and reduction of the antenna-down range of my Futaba PPM receiver. I also tried it with a Futaba PCM receiver and it worked without a glitch, but I decided not to use it just in case...

Initially I thought that the glow was drawing too much current and was dropping the voltage at the receiver end. However, I measured it and it was 5.1 V, i.e. exactly the same with the glow off. I then checked it with an oscilloscope and discovered that it was using pulse-width modulation to control the current to the glow plug. There were lots of very short spikes during the glow-on period. As soon as the glow was switched off the spikes would disappear.

This situation is very similar to the one you are talking about. I think you are going to see an awful lot of glitching simply because of the spikes of current drawn by the ignition system. Add to that the fact that you are introducing a direct link between your receiver circuitry and a 20kV spark generator (your ignition system) and you are in for an interesting time

You can try it if you want and post your results here but please be very-very careful! Do your range checks without blades with the engine both off and on, much like an electric heli. In theory it is not going to work, but who knows what's going to happen in reality!

Harris
03-16-2006 Over year old.
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hootowl
Elite Veteran
Location: Garnet Valley, Pa.

Is Spread Sectrum going to be the answer to the glitching?

"Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all.
03-16-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
AnnihilaT
Key Veteran
Location: The Netherlands Force: The Dark Side

Harris,

Damn

Thanks for that information... I guess its going to have to be 2 lipos then with a KF ubec for ignition and the fromeco for the rest. (I dont like ni-cads).





A day without sunshine is like, well, night.
03-16-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
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Gohbee Aviation Stinger 30-90 > Gohbee / TZ / Raptor 90 Heli with BME modified G90 Gas Engine
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