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Ron’s HeliProz South . Century Helicopter . MTA Hobbies

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Audacity Models Pantera 50 - Tiger 50 > Tiger VS Raptor
 
 
Heliplane
Heliman
Location: Topeka, KS

Currently I own a blinged Raptor with a hyper 50 but was looking for a second 50 and I was debating on getting another Rappie or getting a tiger but there are a couple of issues that concern me. I went to a funfly in Bartlesville, OK last weekend and saw a guy flying his Tiger. I was very impressed with the way the machine performed. The only thing that dissappointed me was the tail came apart on him. The bearings basically exploded. Now I'm not saying that this same thing couldn't happen on a Raptor but it hasn't on mine. From talking to the guy he had mentioned that John Beech had been talking about putting a thrust bearing in the tail grips to prevent this. I was just wondering if anyone else had been having issues with tail bearings and if so what the cure was. The other thing that's keeping me from pulling the trigger on buying a tiger is the Spindle bending and the head slop on the stock tiger. It was my understanding that a new version of the Tiger with a larger spindle was going to be shipping soon?? Also please don't take this post the wrong way because I could name all kinds of issues that I've had with my Raptor but I just would like to know that I'm not trading one set of problems for a whole other set of problems. Any feedback from anyone is appreciated especially anyone that has both.
11-03-2005 Over year old.
 
 
hootowl
Elite Veteran
Location: Garnet Valley, Pa.

I noticed some head slop in the linkages at the balls. That is with a never flown heli. My question is how do you tighten ball links? I know how to loosen them.

Only CHANGE you'll get is what's left in your pocket.
11-03-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
darkfa8
Key Veteran
Location: Eatontown, NJ, USA

I believe the tail bearing explosions were a result of bearings that didn't have a sufficient amount of grease/oil in them. If in double, pull the grips apart and grease with white lithium or equivalent on thrust bearings, or Tri-flow for the radial bearings.

The spindle bending issue I think is still a random occurance and I don't think anyone has really nailed down scientifically what has caused some of the freak instances of bending. Marcus Kim and Kyle Stacy put the Tiger through some heavy and hard 3D and spindle bending wasn't a issue. Nonetheless, there is a 6mm spindle upgrade out of available soon to pacify any potential issues.

I wasn't aware of head slop, but as for the ball links, once they're loose I don't believe there is any sure fire way of tightening them back up.. you just replace them.

The stock ball links are tight from the get-go. I run my resizing tool in them for 1 or 2 spins and that's it.

- Dan G. -
11-03-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
beast
Veteran
Location: Laurel MD

Quote 
John Beech had been talking about putting a thrust bearing in the tail grips to prevent this


there are quite a few heli's including 90 size on the market today that don't have one either.

.Beresford
11-03-2005 Over year old.
 
 
hootowl
Elite Veteran
Location: Garnet Valley, Pa.

While working on my heli tonight I grabbed the main blade grips and lifted up and down. WOW there is an aweful lot of free movement there. Seems to be in the fit of the grip itself to the bearings. Maybe this is supposed to be this way?

Only CHANGE you'll get is what's left in your pocket.
11-04-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Jeff Pfeifer
Senior Heliman
Location: Bolivar, MO

Hey Heliplane,
After talking to John on sunday about what happened with the tiger's tail grips it sounds like this is not a common thing to happen. He has only had that happed on 4 or 5 out of over 500 helis that have gone out the door. Just might have had a bad couple of bearings or not enough lube. As for putting thrust bearings in the tail I dont think that this has been enough of a problem to do new grips, hub, bearings, ect... (I have seen raptors shoot a grip as well!). One thing thing is for sure though by going with a Tiger you will have some of the best product support in the business. John is the type of guy that if you are having a problem he will work with you in any way he can to fix it and get you in the air. Something that you will never get with Thunder Tiger. As for the spindle issue, if you follow the addendums that John provides in the kit shouldn't be a problem by flipping the grips to leading edge control, and he also offers a hard 3D dampener as well. I see no reason why you can't 3D the snot out of it with the stock spindle, as long as you use good collective management and not bogging the crap out of the head you'll be fine. He is working on a 6mm spindle kit with new grips and bearings that hopefully be avialable to the public soon. When exactly not for sure.
11-04-2005 Over year old.
 
 
dankers
Veteran
Location: Melbourne, Australia

I changed my tail system to a JR one after having a set of bearings fail after 20 flights.

More info in this article:

http://www.audacitymodels.com/downloads/MHT_48.pdf
11-04-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
UpstateRotor
Senior Heliman
Location: Upstate NY

http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t211626p1/

Jeff indicated he will print a correction in the next MHT.

Shawn
11-05-2005 Over year old.
 
 
tapeworm
Heliman
Location: Atlanta, Ga

Quote 
I see no reason why you can't 3D the snot out of it with the stock spindle, as long as you use good collective management and not bogging the crap out of the head you'll be fine.




Very correct. If your trying to break it you will. I've bent a couple of spindles but I was trying to bend them by bogging the head.

Eric
11-06-2005 Over year old.
 
 
hootowl
Elite Veteran
Location: Garnet Valley, Pa.

Very little has been mentioned about helicopter gross weight in this category. I did an online search of specifications and found most advertised fully equipped weights came in around 7 to 7-1/2 lbs. Tiger50 being advertised at 7.4 lbs. Depending on equipment this weight will vary.

The Raptor 50 V2 stood out advertised at 6.6 lbs fully equipped, a full pound lighter than most of the other 50 class machines.

I had someone at the field yesterday pick up my Tiger50 and comment that it felt heavy. This prompted me to look the weights up of similar helis.

It ends up the guy that commented on my Tiger50 was flying a Hirobo Scuedo 50 that is advertised as having the exact same fully equipped weight as my Tiger50.

Going back to the Raptor... a full pound lighter. How did they get it that much lighter and what might be the advantages/disadvantages?

Lighter: More agile in the air but parts might not be as strong. On the other hand a lighter heli might not suffer as bad in a crash.

Heavier: More stability. Depending on where the weight difference was put, It could mean a stronger airframe and running gear. Judging from the videos on the Audacity site, there certainly aren't any capability problems.

Only CHANGE you'll get is what's left in your pocket.
11-06-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
dankers
Veteran
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Quote 
Very correct. If your trying to break it you will. I've bent a couple of spindles but I was trying to bend them by bogging the head.


I can atest to that - have gone out and tried to bend them and I could do it without fail, 3 times in fact.
11-06-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Jeff Pfeifer
Senior Heliman
Location: Bolivar, MO

Here's a little update on the bearings in the Tail Grips that heliplane was talking about. I recieved the parts from John on Thursday and replaced the bearings in the tail(lubed really well). Sunday went out to fly with the rest of the Springfield crew, and put in 5 hardcore 3D flights and checked the bearings in the tail after every flight and no problems what soever. Bearings feel good as new still. So it seems to me I just had a few bad bearings. Not a big deal, all heli's can have a few bad bearings, not just a particular problem with a single brand I have seen Raptors and JR heli's eject the tai grips from a bad bearing. Just one of those things.
11-07-2005 Over year old.
 
 
ManuelCJr1
Senior Heliman
Location: Sun City, Arizona

I oil the part were the slider passes. but how do you lube or grease the tail blade grip bearings. What grease or oil? where do you apply it.? and how many flights till you re-lube. Thanks
11-07-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
hootowl
Elite Veteran
Location: Garnet Valley, Pa.

Good question.

Many af these bearings are sealed. You do you grease sealed bearings?

Only CHANGE you'll get is what's left in your pocket.
11-07-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
jbeech
rrAdvertiser
Location: Sanford, FL (Orlando area)

I don't know if there's a best way, but this works for me.

I put a few drops on the hub side of each tail rotor grip, right on the shaft itself actually, and then rotational forces will ensure the oil flows through the bearings. As for what oil, I happen to like Tri-Flow myself.

I lube them before flying begins for the day, and I also put a couple of drops at the swashplate and washout since they move up and down on the main shaft. Every once in a blue moon I also put a few drops at the main rotor blade grips - the same as for the tail rotor grips, i.e. right on the shaft and let rotation distribute the oil throughout the bearing. I suspect this may wash some of the grease out of the thrust bearings, but hey, I have to repair crash damage with sufficient frequency that it's not been an issue for me!

Does depending on rotational forces to distribute the lube work? Well, it sure seems to for me because following the first flight after lubing them using this method, I have to wipe the roots of the main rotor blades as well as the tail rotor blades to remove what lube washed through the bearings.

Anyway, that's how I do it . . . and it's not just for my Tiger, but for all my helicopters! The reason I lube so frequently is because I spray down my helis with denatured alcohol after I get back to the shop and folow this with a jet of high pressure air (air compressor) to squirt things really nice and clean. Since it seems to me I may very well be washing away the lube along with any oil and dirt on the model, I figure the best thing to do is just re-lube these points before the start of flying for the day.

I guess we now have the basis for another addition to the addendum, eh?

My 2¢


John Beech - GM (and janitor)
Audacity Models
11-07-2005 Over year old.
 
 
ManuelCJr1
Senior Heliman
Location: Sun City, Arizona

Thanks for the info John.
11-08-2005 Over year old.
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Audacity Models Pantera 50 - Tiger 50 > Tiger VS Raptor
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