rrTV-PHOTO   New HD TV
HOME   rrTV-PHOTO   GALLERIES   MY GALLERY   HELP-FAQ
myHOME PM pmRR MEMBERS 609 ONLINE 29 EVENTS SEARCH REGISTER  START HERE
 
1 page401 viewsPOST REPLY
JR-Spektrum . Gyro Hobbies . E-flite

.
.
Audacity Models Pantera 50 - Tiger 50 > Blade Flutter
 
 
rwp42
Heliman
Location: Pasadena, CA, USA

Setup: Tiger 50, all 3D upgrades, Audacity Carbon blades, Hyper 50 w/MP2.

I am a beginning heli flier -- working on hovering and such. I've run about 20 tanks through my Tiger so far. Last Saturday, I was halfway through my fourth tank, just doing some gentle forward and backward controlled flight, and I experienced a violent blade flutter for a few seconds. It stopped. I hovered a bit more. It happened again, and I landed immediately.

My Tiger has not yet crashed or suffered any other obvious 'trauma'. I have let a few other more experienced pilots try it out, but it has never been inverted or otherwise flown 'hard'.

Any ideas?

Richard
10-03-2005 Over year old.
 
 
scottc
Key Veteran
Location: shakopee minnesota..USA

take a look at the spindel it could be bent, take the blades off and turn the nut that holds the spindel to see if the blade grip moves on the other side and that should tell you if thats the problem or not, or you are way out of track on the main blades.

Hey I didn't ask for this fetish.!!!But I'am sure paying for it....
10-03-2005 Over year old.
 
 
rwp42
Heliman
Location: Pasadena, CA, USA

Thanks, scottc, I'll check the spindle. My blades were in track before it happened, so I don't think that was the cause.

Richard
10-03-2005 Over year old.
 
 
scottc
Key Veteran
Location: shakopee minnesota..USA

before the death of my tiger i had a bend spindel at or just above the hover point it would flutter just a you describe, looking things over on the bench and thats were i found the bent spindle.

Hey I didn't ask for this fetish.!!!But I'am sure paying for it....
10-03-2005 Over year old.
 
 
TUFF MUFFLER
Senior Heliman
Location: RUTLAND,VT

BLADE TRAC

How did u make your tracing adjustments did u do up bye the blade grips or dow bye the swahs plate.Tom
10-03-2005 Over year old.
 
 
rwp42
Heliman
Location: Pasadena, CA, USA

I had made a single minor tracking adjustment on the long linkage (fine-control) to one of the blades to adjust a very small tracking error on about tank #2 of the day.

Richard
10-03-2005 Over year old.
 
 
dbcaster
Senior Heliman
Location: Petaluma, Ca

From my experience with flutter and blade tracking, you cannot make adustments to the long link with the Tiger head. I had the same problem, from my Trex days that manual said to adjust the long link for blade tracking. After many frustrating calls to John, he explained to me that you cannot adjust the long link for blade tracking. The pitch will not change equally throughout the range. Once my long links were the same I have not had any issues, and I have been dumb thumbing and beating the heck out of the Tiger lately. If you need to make minor tracking adjustments, you will need to do a half turn on the upper link. You will most likely need to change your spindle and re-adjust the long links.
I strongly believe that this has been the issue that many people have been having with spindles bending. The Raptor tracking is done with the long link and I think alot of people have done this with the Tiger. It does say in the manual to use the upper short links but I used the longer ones myself.
10-04-2005 Over year old.
 
 
jbeech
rrAdvertiser
Location: Sanford, FL (Orlando area)

This is explained in Addendum v1.7 - but in short - what's likely happened is there's play in one of the seesaw arms. If I had to bet, I suspect either the screw securing the seesaw arm onto the shaft going into the seesaw has backed out slightly, or there's a ganging of tolerances which has resulted in a loose fit on one of the arms. Checking for either condition is actually pretty easy.

Here's how - first, grasp the seesaw arm between your thumb and forefinger and give it a side-to-side wiggle. Next, rotate the head around and check the other seesaw arm the same way. Dollars to donuts there's more play in one versus the other! The usual cause is the bolt has backed out a little. Alternatively, there's a slightly greater amount of freeplay due to a ganging of tolerances. This just means the seesaw arm itself, either of the the two ball bearings, and/or the shaft itself (which the seesaw arm rides) on has a slight difference in fit. The solution is simplicity itself.

First, try tightening the bolt. Be careful though since this bolt threads into the plastic seesaw. Fortunately, if you strip it out, all's not lost. Just use a little plastic-type CA as thread locker and you'll be back in business because you can pretty much restore the threads this way. If the damage is too bad, then fortunately, the part is very inexpensive so it's not that big a deal.

Anyway, if that's not it, then back the bolt out and look to see if the shaft itself (the one the bearings ride on) isn't just a hair too long (you'll see it sticking out past the inner race of the outer bearing of the seesaw arm - it's pretty easy to discern). If this is the case, then next, using a jewler's file, just file down the end of the shaft down a few thousanths (or however much is needed to make for a perfect fit).

This process is called "blue printing" and top pilots engange in this on every assembly of a machine - and we explain how in the addendum sheet included with the Tiger 50 . . . remember, the addendum is what we learn since I wrote the manual (back in March of 2004). Granted, most of us aren't top pilots, but blue printing assemblies is a simple and easy (and free) modification. What's more, it can occasionally result in a tangibly better handling machine and it's fun to do (after all, this "is" modeling).

I placed a section on blue printing seesaw and mixing arms in the addendum because while you may check the fit and find everything perfect, the fact is that occasionally it's not, and blue printing let's you make it better (and of course, parts can wear also). Usually this ganging of tolerances isn't an issue but sometimes it works out against us. What's this mean?

Simply this . . . it's surely no surprise that two bearings with the same part number can actually vary slightly in dimensions, right? I.e. you can measure them both and by using instruments of sufficient precision will almost always discover that one can be slightly thinner than the other, similarly, the ID and the OD can vary slightly as well. The same holds true for the shaft - such that it might be slightly longer than others in the same parts bin. Nonetheless, these differences are within the +/- tolerances of the design. What happens sometimes is that during assembly, a thinner bearing and a longer shaft got matched up - which results in too much play in one of the seesaw arms. The process is refered to in the industry as a ganging of tolerances.

Naturally, the opposite can also happen, but in the case of the seesaw arm assembly a thicker bearing and a shorter shaft, while they can also come together during assembly, don't usually cause a problem. Why not? Because for this assembly, it's the loose fit that can cause a blade to flutter while the tight fit is felt as the screw being tight so you stop tightening it, understand? The flutter can easily be strong enough to lead to a spindle shaft bending. Fortunately, these are sacrificial parts and hence, are cheap and easy to replace. I hope this helps.


John Beech - GM (and janitor)
Audacity Models
10-04-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Learn to Fly
Key Veteran
Location: Yalesville Connecticut

Thanks for the tracking tip. I was told to adjust the longer links...NOW I KNOW!!!


Jeff
Believe nothing you hear, and half of what you see...
10-04-2005 Over year old.
 
 
rwp42
Heliman
Location: Pasadena, CA, USA

Thank you John for the excellent and thorough explanation. I will poke at it when I get back from business travel this week.

Richard
10-04-2005 Over year old.
 
 
1 page401 viewsPOST REPLY
Next D . Fast Lad Performance . Ace Hobby

.
.
Audacity Models Pantera 50 - Tiger 50 > Blade Flutter
  UPDATE SCREEN   PRINT TOPIC Advertisers 

Subscribe to This Topic

Sunday, October 12 - 2:14 am - Copyright © 2000 - 2008 runryder.com | email | link to rr | runryder needs cookie