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Audacity Models Pantera 50 - Tiger 50 > Tricky situation - Help please!
 
 
Swashplate
Key Veteran
Location: UK

Hi,
I acquired a Tiger 50 recently. And I have a problem. I want to take the spindle off and after unscrewing one of the bolts, no matter, how hard i try, i am unable to take the spindle out. Is there a trick I need to know. Please help.

Thanks in advance

ps. I have placed an ad in the misc. classified section for a Quick UK swashplate, barely used and as new condition. Bargain price. let me know if interested.
09-19-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Gadgets
Senior Heliman
Location: South Africa

This often happens on raptors as well.

What I do is, remove one screw and the blade grip.

I then grip the spindle in my 12V drill and spin it out.

I may have to replace the rubber dampers.





I see plank flyers!!!
09-19-2005 Over year old.
 
 
craneyum
Key Veteran
Location: warwickshire uk

Take out the botl you can take our,
take off the bladegrip
pull the other bladegrip with the spindle attached through the headblock,
Then grab the spindle with a pair of grips and undo the other bolt.
hope this helps
Nigel

Learn By Other Peoples Mistakes It Costs Less
09-19-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Swashplate
Key Veteran
Location: UK

thanks gadgets for the advice. Wish things were a bit easier than that. I will give it a go.
09-19-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Swashplate
Key Veteran
Location: UK

Thanks Nigel, missed your reply. The problem is the blade grip refuses to come out of the hub . Have tried an equivalant of brute force aswell

also, i was wondering, if there is any difference to the ornith head assembly?
09-19-2005 Over year old.
 
 
doorman
Elite Veteran
Location: E.Berne, NY

Removing that Spindle

Sometimes the bushing that is between the grip and the damper rubber gets a "burr" on it and you have to take a shaft a bit smaller and tap the old spindle out..... but it is the bushing that is holding onto it.... I have this a couple of times....
Good Luck..... Stan

If there is a cure for this, please don't tell me about it!!!
09-19-2005 Over year old.
 
 
jbeech
rrAdvertiser
Location: Sanford, FL (Orlando area)

I'm with Stan on this one. When I encounter a spindle shaft that doesn't want to slide back out though the bearing nicely, I resort to brute force . . . in a manner of speaking. That's because it doesn't take very much brute force.

I use a drift (which is any kind of shaft I can tap on with a hammer but that has a smaller OD than the shaft itself "and" is strong enough to do the job). A screwriver works, but is a last resort. Better is a screw driver which is ruined which I then cut the tip and the handle off of and binngo, instant drift. Of course, the less resopurceful amongst us can visit the tool store and simply buy one. They go by various names, i.e drift, punch, etc.

Next, since I don't have three hands (i.e. one to hold the grip, another to align and hold the drift, and a third to tap the end of the drift with the hammer), I grip the grip (pun intended) with the meaty part of my thumb and the rest of the palm of my hand (and I have smallish hands so this is do-able by pretty much everybody). Then I grasp and align the drift with my finger tips (all this is with my left hand). Also, and this is important, you will likely find that holding your tongue slightly extended past your lips "and" off center (to the left) helps. Twisting your tongue to the right is generally counterproductive . . . unless you are female (in which case a a half-pint really helps), but I digress . . .

So what's my right hand doing? Well paying for the pint of course. Nah, not really! My right hand is holding the hammer and tapping the other end of the drift of course - unless you're left-handed in which case reverse all of the above unless you're feeling racy)!

Anyway, I find a little gentle persuasion works every time. By the way, why does this happen in the first place? Simple, it's caused by a over-tightening the nuts on the spindle shaft. While it occasionally happens with a factory assembly (but not often because they know about not over doing it), it is more frequently an issue with a spindle that's been owner-replaced.

What happens is the spindle is a relatively soft material (stainless steel) and tightening that last little bit deforms it a little, i.e. mushrooms the end of the shaft. Naturally, the mushrooming is why it's hard to force the now slightly enlarged end of the spindle back out through the ID of the radial bearings.

In any case, tapping it back out this way using brute force doesn't usually cause any harm.


John Beech - GM (and janitor)
Audacity Models
09-19-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Swashplate
Key Veteran
Location: UK

jbeach, Will try that. And yes it is the excessive tightening of nuts people do on the spindle. I just got this heli (second hand). And it is not only the spindle but a few other bolts, which were tightened with extra caution!!
At times, a few of us forget the purpose of self locking nuts!!!
09-19-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Swashplate
Key Veteran
Location: UK

after trying everything out, as a last resort had to saw the spindle. The blade grip looks a bit Never mind.
The problem was it was very bad assembly - Over Over tightening, actually, i could see the spindle protruding out a bit too much into the grips. (About 3mm behind the threads ).

I have 2 problems here
1. which dampers would be best suited. One of them is almost split because of overtightening. I feel, the ornith dampers are a bit thinner and softer
2. Which side should the exposed balls on the thrust bearing face? (Going by manual, it looks like it should face towards the rotor hub).

Thanks again
09-20-2005 Over year old.
 
 
doorman
Elite Veteran
Location: E.Berne, NY

Two Problems....

First the stiffer dampers seem to work the best, even if you are just learning to hover... they are yellow in color..... the stock are black....
John would have to tell you if the Orinth dampers would work, but if it is like most other parts there will be a slight difference.... So he could get you out the parts you need.... he is just that kind of a guy....
As far as the bearings go..... Page 50 of the manual shows a very good layout in the top right corner, and if I am reading your question right, yes, the exposed side of the balls would point towards center of the shaft.. and add a nice light silicone lube to it when you install it....
Hope this will help....

Stan

If there is a cure for this, please don't tell me about it!!!
09-20-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Swashplate
Key Veteran
Location: UK

Cheers, thanks doorman. problem solved! (until i come up with more)
09-20-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Swashplate
Key Veteran
Location: UK

Back again!

Hi again,
I have a couple more Qs.

1. Does it matter if there is a bit of play where the (clutch bell) pinion gear sits in the bearing? it seems to be free and when installed, the bell doesnt sit tight.

2. Also on my Ornith there's a brass bushing on the start shaft between clutch and the bell. But i dont have one with the (second hand) tiger i bought. Do i need one? if so, what's the part number? or what would be a suitable replacement?

thanks again
09-25-2005 Over year old.
 
 
dbcaster
Senior Heliman
Location: Petaluma, Ca

There should be no play with the clutch bell pinion gear and the bearing. There is a note on this in the kits. You will need to remove the clutch bell and JB weld the gear into the bearing race. You will have a ringing noise while flying if the gear is loose.
There is no brash bushing between the start shaft and clutch.
If you don't have a manual you can call John at Audacity and I am sure he will send you one.
09-25-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Swashplate
Key Veteran
Location: UK

Thanks dbcaster.
when the pinion is new, does it fit tight? or is mine worn out?

I do have the manual, but there is no mention of brass bushing in the manual. And also, with Ornith manual there is no mention but there is one in the clutch assembly
09-25-2005 Over year old.
 
 
bsc
Heliman
Location: Villa Park, IL

When it is new, it is glued into the bearing with glue which lasts about a half gallon of flight time. You need to take it apart and re-glue it with jb weld. Once you pull it apart, you should be able to look at the inside of the bearing and see if it is worn (needing replaced), or if you can just re-glue it.
09-26-2005 Over year old.
 
 
tim tompkins
Veteran
Location: Boston, Georgia sw Ga. Thomas County

brass bushing

The Ornith req's the spacer but not the tiger. I would replace the brg.and use the JB weld method to fill the gaps and secure the brg to pinion. This method has worked for all of us.
TimT
09-26-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Swashplate
Key Veteran
Location: UK

Hi again!
Another question about blade grips. The ornith has a washer on the blade grips. Just wondering, if someone knows the part number. Just that, i couldnot find it in the Tiger/Ornith manual. Or if there is a equivalant of it i could find?

Thanks in advance!
(Its the washer on the spindle just before the bolts)
10-03-2005 Over year old.
 
 
jbeech
rrAdvertiser
Location: Sanford, FL (Orlando area)

For those who haven't noticed, Ramesh lives in the UK where the Ornith is sold by Robbe while Audacity Models offer the Tiger 50 direct which, because of how strong the £ (Pound Sterling) is at present, works out pretty well for guys in England! Furthermore, as you might imagine, more than a few fellows contact us wshing to upgrade an Ornith into a Tiger - which generally "isn't" a cost effective proposition but nonetheless, some persist!

Anyway, I keep trying to explain that the Ornith and the Tiger are NOT the same helicopter . . . so asking about Ornith is a waste of everybody's time. Please download the Tiger 50 manual - after all, it's free! Then, in the exploded views, you can see for yourself what parts and part numbers you can order. Folks, the grips, the bearings, the dampers, the washer arrangement, etc. are all completely different and nothing whatsoever crosses over as the same part number because they're different!!!!!

For more information about this, I recommend you read the Magazine Reviews - they too are free downloads (in PDF format), or better still, buy the back issues because the magazines will love you for it. Anyway, specifically read the June 2005 Model Helicopter World where you'll learn about the many differences between an Ornith and a Tiger 50 and why the changes came about. Trust me, it's pretty darn good reading!


John Beech - GM (and janitor)
Audacity Models
10-04-2005 Over year old.
 
 
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Audacity Models Pantera 50 - Tiger 50 > Tricky situation - Help please!
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