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Aerobatic FAI F3C Contest > F3C WC - Lessons from Zamora?
 
 
yapjy
Key Veteran
Location: Singapore

Hi,
Some fellow RR members have participated/attended in the recent F3C World Champ at Zamora.

Maybe it is possible to share some experience and lessons learnt in Zamora eg. engine tuning and flight preparation in unfamiliar weather condition, equipments, trip organisation ... etc etc

08-21-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Dr.Ben
Elite Veteran
Location: Richmond, VA, USA

I'm REALLY interested to hear these posts.

Ben Minor
08-21-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Secret Squirrel
Key Veteran
Location: New Zealander living in Melbourne, Australia

Pay more attention to the cooling system in your machine before you go.

Fly on the fuel you're going to run over there before you go.

Look really really really hard for a place without dust and crap before you fly.

If carpet flies up into your machine, don't fly your back up model, protest then and there.

Have a spanish phrase book on hand.

Take your own food.

Take lots of glow plugs.

Get real good at cross wind flying.

Install inflight fuel mixture control.

Book your own hotel independantly of the organisers.

That's just a few things I can think of right now.

Si

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Simon Lockington
08-21-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
rchelifreak
Senior Heliman
Location: Melbourne, Australia --M.R.C.H.C. and K.D.M.A.S.--

LMAO Si

almost looks like you didnt have a good time

ahh well.
better luck next time.


adrian

rappy 50
08-21-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Secret Squirrel
Key Veteran
Location: New Zealander living in Melbourne, Australia

Nah man it was all good, I think everyone there learned some lessons for next time though. The heat and elevation seemed to affect a lot of people, even some of the big guns were having trouble.

Si

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Simon Lockington
08-21-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
rchelifreak
Senior Heliman
Location: Melbourne, Australia --M.R.C.H.C. and K.D.M.A.S.--

lol
yeah...i just wish i was there
one day

hey where is nick gone???

cant get him



Don't drink and drive. You might hit a bump and spill your drink.
Adrian
:D
08-21-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
johnb
Key Veteran
Location: Guildford, Surrey UK

and make sure you have SatNav!
08-21-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Secret Squirrel
Key Veteran
Location: New Zealander living in Melbourne, Australia

Gidday Colin,
Pretty much everyone already has an identical machine and setup, but even identical machines don't always fly identically. Mine didn't for sure. One has a better engine, while the other just 'seems' to hover better...

The heli in question with the carpet was Wayne Mann's. It was a real unfortunate situation as his hovering in that round was real nice too.

Si

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Simon Lockington
08-21-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Jan Thore
Senior Heliman
Location: Bergen, Norway

Also bring some strong alckohol to kill the bacterias in the food.

You should start with one good shoot every morning.

I did this and had no problems with the Spanish food.

You can live on it , but it taste like ****.......

Looking forward to the next WC in Poland, The food there is very good.

Other than that, train hard and fly as good as you can
08-21-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
duraace9sp
Senior Heliman
Location: los angeles area

food issue

kill the food bacteria with alcohol????

never heard that one before....what alcohol??

i tried killing with beer/tequila in mexico many times.....no success so far
08-21-2005 Over year old.
 
 
DSA
Heliman
Location: Reality

Mexican food (weight loss aid)

After eating a single meal after arriving in Cozumel, Mexico- I didnt eat for a entire week. I lost nearly 17LBS during my vaction. My body even rejected US Gatoraid for a entire week! GREAT weight loss aid. Never mind the dry heaves that lasted a week. Look at my flat belly! (concaved actually, it was allready flat, when I arrived!)

What a FANTASTIC country! I'll be going back REAL soon!

Loving my new 2006 Honda Ridgeline RTL
08-21-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Henrik Engert
Key Veteran
Location: Cedar Park, TX

A good tip is to eat locally made yogurt (with good bacteria) when you arrive to countries known for food problems. You eat it right away, the first day. At least, that has worked for me.

-Hinke
08-21-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Secret Squirrel
Key Veteran
Location: New Zealander living in Melbourne, Australia

Jan Thore,
Was great to hang out with you guys and sample some of that fine Norweigian liquer. I'll certainly take the 'shot a day keeps the bugs away' advice on hand when I'm next overseas .

Si

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Simon Lockington
08-21-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
yapjy
Key Veteran
Location: Singapore

Haha... I guess food takes central stage this time round.

Where will be the next WC held?

Hmm...what fuel was being provided at Zamora?
Did you pay for the fuel?
Is there any parts support on site?
Did you bring any parts along for backup? eg boom, shafts, blades, transmitter ... ???
How many days before the actual competition should you arrive? Bearing in mind the time needed for practise and fine tuning.
How much money was spent on the entire team (travel, accomodation, etc) for this trip?
Did you get any financial assistance from your home flying association?
What are the administrative work to be done?


08-22-2005 Over year old.
 
 
TMoore
rrProfessor
Location: Cookeville, TN

Food is relative and there are no guarantees even here in the US. I got so sick at IRCHA from either of two restaurants, (2 nationally known chains) that I needed a course of Cipro XR to take care of e-coli.

TM
08-22-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Chris.C
Senior Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

I've heard the comments from the other teams and the Hong Kong team did try the local food for once. We later find a Chinese restaurant that it became our canteen.

The owner, Anna, is very nice and did her best to prepare good food for us so I like to thank her for that.

Later, we see Singapore team and Japanese too dinning at her restaurant.

Chris
08-22-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Wayne Mann
Senior Heliman
Location: United States of America

Well I guess it's been long enough and my blood has stopped boiling to the point where I can talk about the problems we encountered in Spain.

Yes I think a great many pilots learned a lot of valuable lessons in Spain. The main lesson for me was never take anything for granted at one of these events. Even though it's a World Championship don't assume that the organizers know what they are doing. Also as I would later find out the CIAM basically has no control over how the organizers run the event. I think and would like to assume that after this Worlds the CIAM will be a little more carefull about who they let hold one of these events.

Outside of not knowing how to nail down a piece of carpet their worst offense in my opinion were the guys running the start box. They are suppose to start your ready box time in "A" Schedule during the third from the last aerobatic maneuver, but they would try to put you on the clock as soon as the pilot flying left hovering to go upstairs. It was pretty obvious that they were following someone's orders. They were told by Horace to cut that crap out, but it fell on deaf ears. Everytime you got in the ready box it was a struggle with the starter to do it right.

I would like to know how many engines were toasted at this event. I know of several people that were having engine problems. I lost three rings the first two days we were there before I finally figured out what was going on. This part of Spain was basically a desert. The humidity was very, very low. The altitude at the contest site and at our private practice site at our Villa was a little over 2300 feet. The tempature except for a couple of days was in the mid 90's. Usually mid 90's isn't bad when the humidity is very low, but there was no and I mean no smog or haze to filter the Sun. I have been all over this planet and I have never seen a Sun so bright or hot when it was beeming down on you. The sky was so clear it was a dark blue like color which made the model and it's colors very bright to the point it almost hurt your eyes to look at it. It took me several days to get used to this. Anyway as some of you know these engines are cooled by a mixture of air and water. A good amount of humidity is critical for efficient cooling. When the humidity is normal to high the water in the air does a much better job of pulling the heat out of the engine as the fan is blowing air and water across the cylinder head. When you fly at some altitude like 2300 feet with very low humidity and very hot tempatures the engines get hotter than hell. My hover or main needle and my high speed needle on my YS engines were both backed out over six clicks each. The other problem was that in these conditions needle setting become super critical. One click on my high speed needle either side of just right meant too lean or too rich. The next problem was because of the super clear skies it would get very cool at night and would stay that way until about 10am and because of this the needles worked backwards relative to hot and cold. Usually when it cools down you have to richen the needles due to there being more oxygen in the air. Over there your mixture was relative to the temps meaning the hotter it got the richer you had to run the engines due to the hot air not cooling the engines very well. If you flew early at 8:00 or in the middle of the day it was a guess at best as to how much to twist on the needles. Yes my primary model did have a mixture control servo, but it was tied to the main needle which was not a lot of help over there under those conditions. It needed to be on the high speed needle which is hard to get at with a mixture control. The YS engines don't work nearly as well as OS engines with mixture control. The OS engine has a main needle which controls high speed along with the whole range and they have a hover needle valve for trimming the mixture in a hover. The YS engine has main needle which controls hover and the whold range, but the high speed needle has too much authority from three quarter stick and beyond.

It still makes me sick to think about the problems I had with the carpet in the start box the first round of the finals. The situation was agravated buy a smart ass comment that was made to me just seconds after it happened by a jury member that just happened to be standing there and prior to my caller grabing the back up model. I was obviously in shock at what had just happened and wasn't quite sure what to do. Protesting at that point I felt would have been very risky as the conditions were equal for everyone. I felt that I would probably loose the protest and receive a 0 for the round. The only logical option was to grab the back up, but as Dwight was setting it in the ready box I knew that I was basically screwed. In those conditions needle settings were so critical the model you were planning on flying in the round had better of been run in those conditions recently. That model had not been flown in two days as I had no intention of flying it which was a major mistake on my part. BUT as any of the top pilots will tell you when you get to the finals you have already picked out your best machine for various reasons and having to switch to the back up is usually the kiss of death.

When I left out of the box for the aerobatics and pulled idle up 1 on I remember thinking to myself, boy that spooled up awfully fast and sure enough as I was completing the second of the two horizontal rolls I could tell that the engine was runnig too hard. I turned the model around and started in for the two loops and I could tell that the head was starting to sag, so I took my medicine and brought the thing in and landed it not wanting to fry the engine.

After I landed I was informed that they had nailed down the carpet and that a protest was already being filed. As soon as I left the ready box they fixed the carpet. I wish I had looked back and saw that after I had set the model down on the pad as I would have shut the engine down right then and filed a protest.

Mr. Ito the yound kid from Japan ran away with the contest. He flew very well. His hovering was outstanding. He only had one bad round which was in "A" Schedule. He flew three pilots after me on the same flight line. We were flying in a very severe cross wind in our face. I was lucky that the wind layed down for me in the first two hovering maneuvers. He wound up with roughly a 214 raw score, I had a 230 something and Curtis had a 220 something with a 0 for the nose in and tail in horizontal eight. I should also say that Curtis flew early in the round before the wind got up. My point here is I didn't think Mr. Ito flew very well in the wind. His hovering wasn't nearly as good as what we have seen from the pilots from Japan in the past. If It had been very windy in the finals, one of the other pilots from Japan or Scott would have probably won the contest. Scott flew very well and deserved second place. I just regret having the problems with the start box and not being able to battle it out with Scott for second.

Anyway if they every have this thing in a desert again I will have to think twice about not letting the alternate take my place.


Wayne
08-22-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Henrik Engert
Key Veteran
Location: Cedar Park, TX

Wayne:

I was really sorry to hear your bad luck in the finals.

When I was there for those few days I saw you fly and I must say I was impressed by your performance. Don't know if you remember me, but we talked a little bit...mostly about your dogs (I had my whole family with me in t-shirt's supporting Sweden, and the US of course, my wife is american).

You have inspired me to continue to try to become a good F3C pilot. I have now got help from Krister (out top pilot in Sweden) with my Freya XSpec, and it is now a totally new helicopter to fly. I can now roll straight and the hovering is much easier. We fixed the phasing and we fixed the C.G of the helicopter. Such small things does wonders.

Keep up the good work you do.

Henrik
08-22-2005 Over year old.
 
 
GM1
Elite Veteran
Location: Tallahassee, Florida US

Equipment

As mentioned before, most serious F3C competitors have two models that are as close to identical as they can make them but, in my experience, two identically prepared models never quite fly the same for whatever reason. In my case one YS 91 was just atouch stronger than the other so the model was a fuzz faster and rolled better. While I used the same brand and weight blades on each model, one set was a little more nose heavy and seemed to hover and auto just a hair better. I always make sure I put my best motor and blades (and anything else that works better) on my primary model and I spend more time making it as good as I can get it. I work on my backup model to keep it reasonably flyable but do not concentrate my efforts on it.
This year it made no difference as I lost the primary model two weeks before the NATS and the backup two days before the NATS, leaving me with a model that had been flown twice and hovered three times. I just wasn't worth making the trip to get my head handed to me so I skipped the NATS for the first time in a long time. I am determined to be ready for next year (new schedules) with two well prepared models and a lot of practice. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Gordie

On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.
08-22-2005 Over year old.
 
 
nighttrain
Senior Heliman
Location: Louisville KY

Thanks Wayne. For those who don't know him, Wayne has helped so many people and is very open about his testing and shares his ideas and results. We're all very proud of the US Team and effort. Doug Trent
08-22-2005 Over year old.
 
 
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Aerobatic FAI F3C Contest > F3C WC - Lessons from Zamora?
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