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e-E-Flite Blade CP CX 400-3D > Main motor over heat problems on two cell LiPo
 
 
Deltaman
Heliman
Location: Costa Mesa, California - USA

I am running the original 10 tooth motor with a LiPo. I have more than enough power to do all the basic flight maneuvers, and heli feels a lot more stable. (I think this is because LiPo’s are a more constant source of power.)

I'm using a "Wattage" 1500 mAh, 2 cell, 7.4 volt LiPo battery. I have also changed out the original transmitter to a HiTec "Optic 6". Additionally, I have put two heat sinks on the main motor, and two heat sinks on the tail motor, and cut away some of the canopy plastic around the main rotor mast, as well as opened up the simulated air intakes on the sides of the body.

All is good, except when I fly over 10-11 minutes. At that point, I notice a gradual reduction in power, and deterioration in flying qualities. Sometimes I get a glitch, where it seems that the mail motor just stops for an instant… then comes back on… VERY disconcerting! Upon landing I noticed that the main motor is very warm, but the battery and tail motors are cool.

Anybody else have similar problems or possible solutions?

I suspect it will not format correctly on the WEB... but enclosed below are my Throttle, Pitch, and miscellaneous, transmitter settings...

Optic 6 Transmitter setup for the Blade CP Helicopter (Memory #2) 8/11/05


Channel 1 2 3 4 5 6
Right Servo Elevator Throttle Rudder Gyro N/A Left Servo

• EPA 125% L&R 120% L&R 100% L&R 115% L 125% R 100% L&R 100% L&R
• SWAH +100 +100 +17
• RVMX 0%
• MX.55 ----
• PTCV 5% 20% 35% 55% 75%
• THCV 0% 82% 87% 92% 100%
• HOLD Inh
• Gyro Inh
• R T 0%
• PMX2 Inh
• PMX1 Inh
• T.CUT -10%
• REV N R N N N R
• *S.TRM +24% +14% -10% +18% 0% +40%
• EXP -10% -8% +12%
• D/R 100% 100% 100%


* Helicopter specific
08-12-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Mike Freas
Senior Heliman
Location: SanDiego, CA USA

Why did you go with the 2S? Myself and just about everyone I know flies with the 3S lipo.
08-12-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Deltaman
Heliman
Location: Costa Mesa, California - USA

Response... "Main motor over heat problems on two cell LiPo"

Two reasons:

1. I already had the battery (surplus from an airplane) and I wanted to experiment to see if the "Blade" would even fly on 2 cells (7.4 Volts).

2. Lower voltage, lower weight = longer flight times and lower power (longer component life).

I actually have three other motors. 2x eight teeth, and 1x 9 tooth. I also have two Thunder Power 1320 LiPo batteries. I will experiment with them when this setup wears-out / burns-up!

The heli fly’s with more than enough power on the 2 cells. But I think you would want to have a programmable transmitter to optimize the throttle and pitch curves for 7.4 volts.
08-12-2005 Over year old.
 
 
policerescue620
Veteran
Location: las vegas, nevada

the stock motors are el cheapos most cannot stand the current generated by high amp batts also did you try adding the heatsink option part its 3 bucks if that... joe

adding a breath of fresh air daily...!!!
08-12-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Deltaman
Heliman
Location: Costa Mesa, California - USA

Response... "Main motor over heat problems on two cell LiPo"

I put two heat sinks on the main motor and two heat sinks on the tail motor. (Also used heat sink conducting grease... $3 @ Radio Shack)

P.S. I'm also using a "Deans Ultra" plug to connect my battery to the 4in1. Ya! I know it's over kill... but I was too lazy to change over my LiPo to the original JST plugs. I have standardized all my RC electronics to "Deans Plugs".

I will look into the "Gallery". If possible I will submit photos and flying video by Monday.
08-12-2005 Over year old.
 
 
JiggerInc
Senior Heliman
Location: Arlington, VA

Its not that the batteries put out a high amperage.. they're just capable of delivering it if the demand is there. The demand is the old volts=amps*ohms formula. By running on 2 cells instead of 3, and keeping the resistance (ohms) the same.. you're requiring 33% more amps to get a given motor speed. Current = "friction" in the electronics = heat. 4S and 5S, so called "high voltage" applications, actually run the components at lower temperature for any given wattage (a.k.a. power). The reason is again, watts=volts*amps... so if your motor is dissapating 200W that's either 20A @10V, or 2A @100V or 200A @ 1V.. (theoretically, anyway).

Battery life is measured in amp-hours. A 1500mah battery can deliver 1.5A of current at its rated voltage (7.4V in your case) for 1 hour. 3A will drain it in 30 minutes, etc. A 1500mah 3S battery can deliver 1.5A of current at 11.1V for 1 hour, 3A for 30min, etc. The reason the 3S will last longer is because at that higher voltage the ESC is pushing fewer amps at the motor to achieve a given speed.

So, in short.. lower volts = more amps = more heat. More cells, whether in series or in parallel will help your flight times (at the expense of added weight). In series they help your flight time (and heat) by reducing the current drawn by the motor. In parallel they help your flight time by providing more amp-hours.

Hope this helps,
Greg
08-12-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Deltaman
Heliman
Location: Costa Mesa, California - USA

Response... "Main motor over heat problems on two cell LiPo"

Thanks for the info “JiggerLnc” I guess I’m a little slow, but maybe you can help clarify something for me.

Suppose in the first instance, I put my Blade into a 200 foot a minute climb as configured with the 2 cell LiPo. Let’s guess that it takes 6.75 volts at a constant XX current.

Now let’s compare another Blade with a 3 cell LiPo performing the same 200 foot a minute climb. Would it not take about the same 6.75 volts at a constant XX current?

Yes... The 3 cell would have a reserve 4+ volts… if necessary, but my experience has been that you don’t require the extra power... Voltage*(Amps @ XX Constant) for normal operation. What am I missing?


Thanks
08-12-2005 Over year old.
 
 
jcrack_corn
Senior Heliman
Location: Lafayette, LA

what you are missing is that the relationship of volts to amps is linear, double the volts and you only need half the amps.....forget ohms law, you need
Power (watts) = V(volts)*I (amps)

You will likely see the U.S. moving to 24v car electric systems in the next decade becuase of the high current demand of the accessories we are putting in them now (ECU, motors, hi-fi sound/video, satellite, motorized doors, etc)...you only need to run wire half the gauge that a 12v system requires.

Anyway....yes, at 7.4v you must pull more amps to deliver the same power. period. 50% more than a 3s.
08-13-2005 Over year old.
 
 
jcrack_corn
Senior Heliman
Location: Lafayette, LA

lol....oops, didn't read jiggerincs reply...just went directly to posting....anyway...nice writeup
08-13-2005 Over year old.
 
 
JiggerInc
Senior Heliman
Location: Arlington, VA

Thanks jcrack, well said. I also think Deltaman's description suggests volts as something that is consumed from the battery, while a motor draws a constant current. It's a more accurate model to think of 1) a motor requiring a certain number of watts to generate a given headspeed... 2) amps being consumed based on the need of the load.. while 3) voltage is constantly applied to the system. A water analogy usually serves well...

Voltage is like the pressure in a pipe. Amperage is how much "flow" of water is moving through the pipe. Even when there's no flow of water, there's still a constant pressure. "A given voltage, upon encountering infinite resistance will produce 0 amps of current." ... as the resistance lowers (connecting a light bulb to the terminals of the battery, as opposed to a block of rubber), the voltage pushes more current though the system.

A battery's rated voltage is how much pressure it puts on a line. As you open the valve (throttle up) water begins to flow. How much water flow is required to do a certain amount of work is dependent on the pressure. At higher pressure, less water can get more work done. At a lower pressure it requires a greater volume of water to do that work. In the analogy, "work" might be something like pushing back an angry crowd with a firehose. At a high enough pressure, an almost microscopic flow of water can cut through steel!! At regular sea-level pressure, the amount of water flow required to errode steel would be unimaginable.

To continue the analogy, a battery's ability to provide current is rated in terms of a multiple of its amp-hour rating. A 10C 1500mAH battery can flow up to 15A of current before the amount of "water" flowing in the "pipes" begins to drop the pressure... That water flow also causes friction against the walls of the pipes... hence, heat. If you put a low enough resistance between the terminals of a battery (short them out) the current that flows between them goes towards infinitity and you have a nice fire/explosion.

It's not a perfect analogy, but hopefully it illustrates the relationship.

Finally, if it helps in rationalizing the flight times, convert the battery's amp-hour rating to a watt-hour rating by multiplying by the voltage. In your case 1.5Ah * 7.4V = 11.1watt-hours. If your blade requires 111watts of power to fight gravity and get in the air, you'll get 0.1 hours or 6 minutes of flight. A 1.5Ah * 11.1V lipo will be 16.65watt-hours.. but that extra weight might mean you need 150watts of power to fly.. so you'll get slightly more than 6 minutes of flight. It's diminishing returns.. each cell you add also adds weight, so you get less and less additional flight time for each new cell.
08-13-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Harv
Heliman
Location: Saskatchewan

Quote 
I actually have three other motors. 2x eight teeth, and 1x 9 tooth. I also have two Thunder Power 1320 LiPo batteries. I will experiment with them when this setup wears-out / burns-up!


No need for any experimentation, as Horizon has already done it for you. Check the product bulletin to see the different motor/battery combos. The answer to your particular issue may be that you need to use an 11 tooth pinion with your 2S lipo.
08-13-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Deltaman
Heliman
Location: Costa Mesa, California - USA

I stand corrected! ... "Main motor over heat problems on two cell LiPo"

First I want to thank: "JiggerInc" and "jcrack_corn"!

You’re very detailed responses to my questions have been very helpful... to me and others, I'm sure. I am in the process of changing over to the TP 1320 mHa 3 cell LiPo, using the 8 tooth pinion motor.

I don't want to over / under rev the motor. Does anyone have any suggestions as to the appropriate "head speeds" with motor in the above configuration? I'd like to get hold of an optical tachometer (any suggestions) and program my Optic 6 transmitter's "throttle / pitch curves" to the optimal head speeds!

Thanks again guys, for all your comments!
08-15-2005 Over year old.
 
 
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e-E-Flite Blade CP CX 400-3D > Main motor over heat problems on two cell LiPo
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