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Fast Lad Performance . Ace Hobby . Esprit Model

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Safety - RC Helis are not toys > This hobby is scaring the hell out of me!
 
 
Jeff Swartz
Key Veteran
Location: Ohio

I am adding to and reposting something that I touched on in another thread. Its about safety and think it needs serious attention!

There was a real close call during the IRCHA night fly. Scared the hell out of me! I was ready to quit the hobby! These guys are flying so hard and fast, it could only take a split second mistake for a deadly catastrophe!

There are a couple of maneuvers that I and a few other "MAJOR" flyers would like to see done away with. The Knife-edge circle that passes right in front of the pilot and spectators. (Yes the high speed one that we have all seen Curtis do) Some of these guys are really getting close to themselves. And the tail stand / push out take off that is done directly in front of the pilot (when the rotor disc is going straight at the pilot) (J.K. is famous for this take off the right way. I HAVE NEVER SEEN HIM DO IT AT HIMSELF!)

It would be nice to see some of our most fantastic flyers set some examples and set some of these maneuvers aside because of the high danger to the pilot and spectators. While watching Curtis and Jason fly at XFC this year doing the knife-edge circle, I felt comfortable that they had TOTAL control. I also however got nervous when I thought about a machine failure. Now I see lots of people doing that same maneuver that I feel are on the edge of disaster! I over heard several people saying they will not spot for some other very well known pilots because of this exact maneuver. (On a side note, at IRCHA Todd and Jason were doing some fantastic flying! And never once came very close to themselves or the flight line. Good job guys!)

Just because I have a car in my garage that will do 155mph, doesn’t mean that it's safe! I have to use a lot of common sense, just as we all do when driving down the road.

With the bigger engines and faster machines everyone has to really start thinking about doing their part for safety. No one can have the attitude that it'll be the other guy.

When I got to the IRCHA event Saturday morning, I was followed in by an Ambulance. I was scared! Allot of other people were scared. It was some time till we heard what happened. It was not a heli accident but involved a couple people on a bicycle that got scraped up pretty bad. (Report was they were doing fine Saturday night)

Thanks for reading this! I usually don’t post this big, but this time, I just felt it was necessary!
08-23-2002 Over year old.
 
 
mongo
Veteran
Location: Midland, Republic of TEXAS

happens after every major fly in/fun fly. some no tallent nobody complanes about other folks doing manouvers he can not or is not willing to do.
how about, instead of starting a whole new thread everytime to complane like this, ya just post a link to last time.
save us all some bandwidth.

Copyright © 2001-2005 Mongo Consulting. All rights reserved.
08-24-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Jeff Swartz
Key Veteran
Location: Ohio

Quote 
there is only one mongo, and yes, some think me an ass


At least you say this right up front don't you!
08-24-2002 Over year old.
 
 
heliman41
Key Veteran
Location: Valparaiso IN. USA

Hey, I agree that it looks scary but I really dont think anyone who wasnt 150% sure of their heli and themself would attempt that manouver. I will say Im impressed how sober everyone stays while flying till its over thats probably the most importaint thing to remember stay sober and be safety conscience till you are done for the day. I love watching manouvers like the one you speak of and franky, if you feel scared then back away some( and give yourself some safety zone), griping only means you cant do that manouver is all, no big deal geezee!
08-24-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Rotor
Key Veteran
Location: USA

It will take someone getting "ripped" up before anything will change. Shouldn't be that way but it is.....

My motto is this..Fly...Rebuild...Fly
08-24-2002 Over year old.
 
 
DrScoles
Veteran
Location: Redmond WA

Heliman...I think you're sorely mistaken...we've all seen tons of guys fly way too close to themselves... We have a guy at our field who recently got hit by his raptor50... he was lucky. I'm still amazed to see how close people will be when they take off into a hover...total beginners will have the thing 4-5 feet in front of them...

I won't even take off without the heli a good 20-25 feet away... I am very intimidated by that thing and would like to have a fighting chance if it starts slinging parts.

I have been guilty many times of flying too close, I have made a conscious effort to try to increase the distance between me and the heli, my friends appreciate it too

Mike
08-24-2002 Over year old.
 
 
heliman41
Key Veteran
Location: Valparaiso IN. USA

Mike I dont trust anyone TILL I see them do their routine then I decide IF I trust their judgement. Im not stupid I assure you I like my face just the way it is. I personally dont do manouvers closer than about 20-30ft to myself either because anything made by man can fail anything. Its more a case of when not if. I dont stand next to any pilot doing that manouver because of this reason but it is one cool manouver I gotta say, and it takes BALLS!
08-24-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Rotor
Key Veteran
Location: USA

No matter how good they are, what happens when something major fails and it goes out of control. That is what I see could happen...

My motto is this..Fly...Rebuild...Fly
08-24-2002 Over year old.
 
 
rockcrawler
Veteran
Location: Covington Wa

I agree, and have a 35 stich scar on my bicep from a mechanical
failure while flying WAY TO CLOSE to my self.
( Idle up, 1800 hs, woody 600s thank heli gods I was inbetween orders on new carbon blades) Full speed into my side, 2 seconds of time to react. The first second was me going hunhh whats up? Second #2 was turning away then bleeding profusely.
The plankers are the worst, they used to hover 1/3 scale TOC style
planes right in the middle of our runway while 4 other pilots were
on the flight line. I have watched Mike Scholes do backwards inverted
funnels 10' from himself with a 91 frea. He has stated he is going to fly farther out after he saw my arm.
CONFIDENCE IS ONE THING BUT BEING COMFERTABLE CAN BE
DANGERIOUS.
My 2 cents.
08-24-2002 Over year old.
 
 
heliman41
Key Veteran
Location: Valparaiso IN. USA

If you want strict new laws made call the AMA and your local congressman, crying here wont do it. Everything in life is a gamble as I said, I personally dont fly close to myself and sure dont stand next to guys who do so im safe and covered if they wanna do it more power to em, its a free country stand where you want thats what I do. Im all for safety too dont get me wrong but its gonna take one bad incident to stop flying close Im sure and I wouldnt wish that pain on anyone, well except maybe Bin Laden!
08-24-2002 Over year old.
 
 
jb_turner
Key Veteran
Location: USA

Safety is subjective and depends upon who you ask.
If you feel certain heli maneuvers are not safe you may want to consider a different hobby or not going to any fun flys..
08-24-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Jeff Swartz
Key Veteran
Location: Ohio

Quote 
If you want strict new laws made call the AMA and your local congressman, crying here wont do it. Everything in life is a gamble as I said, I personally dont fly close to myself and sure dont stand next to guys who do so im safe and covered if they wanna do it more power to em, its a free country stand where you want thats what I do. Im all for safety too dont get me wrong but its gonna take one bad incident to stop flying close Im sure and I wouldnt wish that pain on anyone, well except maybe Bin Laden!


Ok guys, right there is my exact point!

Safety is not up to the AMA, or a Congressman! It is up to all of us at the flying fields! When something happens, its not going to be their lives on the line!

If a pilot is 150% of his ability and machine, they why to the top pilots in the world still crash....... and crash alot??

I'm not crying here.... I fly safe, the people I fly with are pretty safe! I just have a feeling that someone is going to get seriously hurt from one of these suckers and that will kill our hobby as well.

Saftey is up to ALL of us!
08-24-2002 Over year old.
 
 
SemiArticulate
Veteran
Location: On Location

I think some people associate cutting edge flying with risky flying. We are pilots not knife throwers. It makes you feel a little better when a 'known' pilot is flying but they are not the only ones flying. The servos, battery, mechanics, and anyone holdeing a TX on that channel is also flying. The way I judge a pilot is if they end their flight without hurting or killing me or my friends then they are OK. It is certainly bad if they kill or hurt someone else but I'd really prefer that it not be me or someone I know. So if you think you have lost control and are about to go into the pits, I have a list of people that I would appreciate if you would avoid that I can supply on request if the need arises. I also have a small list of people I can toss in the way to protect others. Just yell "acquire target" and I can ready this defense. But all members of the defense system need to have their RR troll identitiy clearly visible to protect against miss fire.
08-24-2002 Over year old.
 
 
heliman41
Key Veteran
Location: Valparaiso IN. USA

I think Semi summed that up nicely!
08-24-2002 Over year old.
 
 
ZZ3Astro
Senior Heliman
Location: Panama City, Fl

The formula is simple.....

You want to be safe? Stay home.. You want to be safe and see IRCHA? Order SKS video.

You should assume you are putting yourself at risk the moment you step out of your car at the field. I have a relatively new car that I don't want smashed.. but if it happens I will not be crying for new restrictions on flying. I accept the risk every time I arrive at a field.

The risk is even greater at a large fun fly event such as IRCHA. Double that risk at a night fly where half the pilots were first timers. You had the choice to sit further back.. I never saw a heli get near the spectator line at the night event.

I can't stand these people who scream for more rules and restrictions to be placed on others. Perhaps you'd like to go to the field and be safe around a bunch of helis hovering with ropes tieing them down for added safety? Get real.. this hobby is inherently dangerous. I accept the risk for the thrill of the hobby. Maybe you would be better suited for metal detecting or cross stitching at home.


Steve
08-24-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
ZZ3Astro
Senior Heliman
Location: Panama City, Fl

Before anyone takes my post the wrong way......

I'm not against safety.. Minimize the risks by keeping children and small animals away from the flight line.. routinely perform inspections on your equipment, stay away from mild altering substances while flying etc. Safety is always something to keep in mind.. my point is that this hobby can never be 100% safe AND enjoyable at the same time.

Steve
08-24-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Jeff Swartz
Key Veteran
Location: Ohio

Quote 
my point is that this hobby can never be 100% safe


Nothing ever is 100% safe (well maybe cross stitching at home (good one ))

I am talking about certian very high risk maneuvers only (to the pilot and spectators) The Knife-edge pass is one of the bad ones... I have seen it done safely, passing the pilot 20-30 feet in front of him. BUT, I have seen guys having it pass them 5' in front of them. That's what I'm talking about.

I have really opened myself up for a bashing here eh?
08-24-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Kam Wyatt
Senior Heliman
Location: cottondale, Fl.

Danger

Hovering a new guys nexus, main blade came off slapped him in the
chest!

My friend David H. has had lead fly out of a rotor blade and hit him!

My friend Mike fendley, Just lost his fury to a lock out and the heli
caught on fire and was totalled. Almost hitting him.

My friend Kendall V. had his helicopter fly away and found it 3 years
later.

Saw G. Wright ding a shuttle years ago and tail boom and gear came
flying by our head at blinding speed.

Paul Tradelius had a legend go out of control and before it crashed
straitened back out and dug a skid in his back.

The manuevers that we do today if something fails at the wrong
time its all over!





But! we won't stop pushing the limit!!
08-24-2002 Over year old.
 
 
fitenfyr
rrProfessor
Location: Port Orchard, Washington

Been there!!!

Quote 
I have been guilty many times of flying too close, I have made a conscious effort to try to increase the distance between me and the heli, my friends appreciate it too

Mike


Ok I tend to agree here. Mike is one of the BEST pilots I have seen. I have ZERO problems with spotting for him. Till he get's too close. Do I trust Mike? 100% .Do I trust that piece of plastic and metal NO!
It WILL fail. Maybe not this time, but sometime down the road a part will fail and it will crash.
A perfect example of this was Las Vegas this year. I was spotting for Mike while he was wringing out his new Sceadu. He was doing some very basic stuff and started to fly NOSE in towards us. No big deal he has done it a bunch of times and has total control. Not this time. The tail flicked and all of a sudden the heli was skidding towards us. Mike was very cool and saved us and the heli with a less than 4 foot bail out in front of us. I think I am not sure I was cowering (sp) behind Mike.
It was not his piloting skills that caused it, but a mechanical/design/setup failure on the helis part. Right after that he took it up HIGH safely away from us to diagnose the problem and in typical pre-DTDS fashion the main gear exploded and the heli went with it. Close huh? Less than 2 minutes from the "incident" to "explosion"
LISTEN to the top pilots. Jason and Todd will be the first to tell you keep it at least 15 feet away from you. That is too close for some pilots and spectators. When those guys are doing there demo flights and all that wild knife edge flying they are usually alone out on the line and even though the heli is close to them it is far from any spectators. If a person is out there spotting it is because they trust the pilot AND the machine. If a pilot goes out and does it 5 feet in front of him by HIMSELF oh well its his bacon. Now if he does it with a spotter then it is wrong in my book. If you can do it 5 feet away you can push it out to 25 feet away.
I think discresion is the key word here. If a pilot get's too close to you. KINDLY go over and talk to them about it. I think you would find it is a easy thing to do. Don't you talk to someone if they constantly fly into your box? How many people do we know that do that on a regular basis? Isn't that the same issue?
These toys are dangerous treat them as such and as they say in the fire service "Minimize the risk".

Jason Stiffey
Fly Fast....Live Slow...
08-24-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
corey11
Elite Veteran
Location: Bay Area, California

Ok, listen to this........

The reason why every professional pilot gets so close is to impress the judges. like everyone is saying, it gets them on the edge of there seat. It make the judges go"WOW!!!", and they REALLY remember him because of that manuever. There is a chance that something goes wrong, but, they take that chance. if they dont, they worry about crashing the whole time. the only way to fly better is to not worry about about crashing! when i fly, i just put it behind me and forget about it and just push my limits. You have to push the limits EVERYTIME YOU FLY!! if you dont, you cant get any better! If every time you fly, and your constantly thinking, " im going to crash, im going to crash", your not relaxed. and all you want to do is hover. But once you fly around, you get MORE and MORE confortable with it. So what im saying is. DONT WORRY ABOUT CRASHING!!! if you do, it helps you learn! you know what they say, YOU LEARN FROM YOUR MISTAKES!!

And as Kam said at the bottom of his post, " But we dont stop pushing the limits!" Because we cant!
08-24-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
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Safety - RC Helis are not toys > This hobby is scaring the hell out of me!
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