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Futaba-RC . A Main Hobbies . Boca Bearings

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Century Hawk - Falcon - Raven - Predator > Falcon 50 3d flips and rolls
 
 
svanwhy
Heliman
Location: Tague, Korea

 I'm trying to get my falcon 50 to do flips and rolls but Aileron and elevator response is too slow. What happens is I pitch the heli down to do a flip but it pitches down too slow so the heli drops down. The same thing happens when I try a roll. I did this all the time with my raptor and it would pitch and roll very fast, this heli seems to lack the responsiveness. I checked my atv's and they are all the way but not binding. I thought it was maybe my servos (standard hi tech servo's that come with the eclipse 7) except I ran these exact servos on my raptor 50 and it wasn't a problem. The only other thing I can think of is the position of the balls on the aileron and elevator servos. In the manual it says to put them as close to the center as possible (inner most hole) is this correct? I know that on the elevator servo you can't put the ball that far out on the servo arm because it will hit the aileron servo. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
08-11-2002 Over year old.
 
 
driftrider
Veteran
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA. (In my own little world)

Do you have the stock flybar weights on?

Because if you do it'll fly like a lead brick. The Century heads have a .45:1 flybar mixing ratio stock, which is the lowest out there. This means that the flybar must tilt over 2 degrees for every one degree of cyclic pitch it puts into the blades. In order to get really fast cyclic response/rate, it's necessary to make the flybar paddles as light as possible. Because of the low mixing ratio it's possible to use very light paddles without making the heli excessively pitchy.

On the Raptor 30 the mixing ratio is one of the highest out there at .95:1, meaning that very small flybar movements equate to big cyclic changes. This is why Raptors are happiest with heavier and/or shorter flybars and paddles.

There are also ways to modify the head to achieve higher mixing rates and greater cyclic pitch range, but I'm not really up to speed on the finer points of rotorhead geometry, and I dont' want to mislead you. But I do know that removing any excess flybar weight will help ALOT.

Hopefully Oldfart will respond to this topic, as he is the MAN when it comes to Century helis and knows all the tricks to make them fly really well. He posted steps to tune a Century head for radical 3D a while ago, maybe you could find them if you did a search (if you do, post a link to it because I can't find it).

Good luck,

Mike
08-11-2002 Over year old.
 
 
svanwhy
Heliman
Location: Tague, Korea

I just took the stock flybar weights off and it's still not responsive enough to flip inverted. Actuall I did get it inverted once today but instead of a flip it looked more like an inverted loop. maybe some different paddles?
08-11-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Ray Fernandez
Key Veteran
Location: Guam (U.S.A.)

Lighter paddles would definitely work.

Ray Fernandez - GUAM
08-12-2002 Over year old.
 
 
gforce
Veteran
Location: Jacksonville FL

I think this is the link we are looking for:

http://www.runryder.com/showtopic.htm?s=&topicid=8834
08-12-2002 Over year old.
 
 
jimmyhua
Veteran
Location: Guam

Some finnesse

Okay, so you want to do forward stationary flips with the Falcon.

Here's the trick.

Since the cyclic rate isn't as crazy as the Raptor, you need to tilt it back some 20 degrees, and hold it there for a second or two. Just before the heli starts moving backwards, give it a full forward cyclic. When the heli pasts the tilt forward 30-45 degrees point, give neutral collective. When 45 degrees on the upside down side, give a blast of full negative. When fully inverted go to negative hovering position.

It's more cool to see a slow mo stationary flip, which is what you are about to do. Takes a little practise. In my opinion backward flips are easier to do, as I can pull them off right after some slow forward flight.

If what you've got is a Falcon SE v2. I'm sure you can make it so you can do the stationary flips without resorting to the above skill-set. Although I haven't tried it yet (STILL waiting for a muffler!), that thing has some serious amount of cyclic throws in there. If this is the case, keep playing with it till it feels like a Raptor.

svanwhy says: The only other thing I can think of is the position of the balls on the aileron and elevator servos. In the manual it says to put them as close to the center as possible (inner most hole) is this correct?

Huh?? say what??? My manual states the hole position should be 11mm away from the center. This usually turns out to be the 2nd hole. On the round servo horn, the outter most hole is 10mm away. On the "plus" servo horn and the "star" servo horn, it's usually the 2nd hole which is 11.5mm away.

The fit is real tight with the Falcon on the elevator. Use the force, you can get it to fit .

Last thing worth noting is, a higher head speed will make the roll/flip rate faster. Maybe you're running a lower headspeed as compared to your Raptor?


Jimmy
08-12-2002 Over year old.
 
 
svanwhy
Heliman
Location: Tague, Korea

Your right jimmyhua, I must have been pulling a 1 am tring to finish the heli to fly the next day on that one. I put longer servo arms on the aieron servo and put the balls on the outermost holes, it allready looks like the mechanism moves faster. On the elevator all I could do is move the ball out 1 hole (about 11mm) Also I put a longer balls on the bell/hiller arm so they are both long instead of one short and one long. Head speed could be a factor since I had changed my pitch and throttle curve from that of my raptor. On my raptor for pitch I used -10, -5, 5, 8, 12 On the falcon i'm using -10, -5, 0, 5, 12. The reason that I changed it is beceause on my Raptor the head would overspeed when passing 0 on the pitch curve beceause 0 pitch wasn't on an ajustable position on the throttle position. (if that makes any sense)

Thanks for all the help hopefully I'll get a chance soon to test out my changes! (sigh, the weekends over)
08-12-2002 Over year old.
 
 
jimmyhua
Veteran
Location: Guam

watch the binding.

Hmm. Outermost hole on the ailerons? That maybe too much, check for binding. I've got some binding at the extreme corners on mine.

What you will see is the collective stick, while giving full cyclic at the corners. I like to keep the aileron and elevator hole positions the same, gives you a more symmetrical feel. You can do what you like, just make sure it doesn't bind, or if it does bind at certain odd stick positions, that you are aware of it, and won't try it in the air!!!


Jimmy
08-12-2002 Over year old.
 
 
svanwhy
Heliman
Location: Tague, Korea

Yeah I had to adjust the atv's on the ailerons to prevent binding, I probably ended up with about the same amount of throw that I have on the elevator but have the increased response for rolls (hopefully). I had a funny thought, my tail servo is rear mounted what if I used 2 servos for aileron (one on the left servo mount, one on the right) and move the elevator to the center. It would then be ccpm right? My radio eclipse 7 has a setup for ccpm 120 and 180. It would then be a 120 ccpm? The point is I would be able to put longer servo arms on the elevator. Just a thought.

Oh yeah, it's the Falcon 50 se v2
08-12-2002 Over year old.
 
 
blazen
Senior Heliman
Location: California

Quote
what if I used 2 servos for aileron (one on the left servo mount, one on the right) and move the elevator to the center

I’ve had my eye on that empty Ruder Servo spot in the servo tray for quite sometime. The same thought crossed my mind a while back. I guess I will take a closer look at the possibility now. Right of hand I’m not sure what you would gain from doing this other then the expense of another servo. I have never really liked the Location of the Fore-aft Cyclic servo anyhow.
08-12-2002 Over year old.
 
 
svanwhy
Heliman
Location: Tague, Korea

Whew, I almost thought I was crazy for suggesting putting another servo in there! The point of it besides just having 2 servos for aileron is having the elevator servo mounted in the center servo slot I would be able to move the ball link further out on the servo horn.
08-12-2002 Over year old.
 
 
svanwhy
Heliman
Location: Tague, Korea

Flips and rolls a problem no more!

Well I took my falcon out and tried some 3d with it since I made the changes that I posted above and I'm impressed with its 3d capability! I only got one flight in though because the bottom bolt on my muffler came loose and I'm going to have to split the frames to remove the bolt and replace it. It used to be I had to give it full input to get a loop and the loops were very large. I was so used to its slow response that I went to do a loop and pulled back all the way, it just flopped over at the top of the loop! I tried a stationary flip and it flipped very fast. Rolls in FFF were perfect unlike the barrel rolls that I was getting before. I almost went back to my raptor 50, I'm glad I didn't give up on my Falcon.
08-18-2002 Over year old.
 
 
svanwhy
Heliman
Location: Tague, Korea

Yes it's stripped, The top one stripped a while back too and I had to put a longer bolt and a nut on it. How do I fix it? I've allways had problems with mufflers coming loose on me, I use locktight but it still happens.
08-18-2002 Over year old.
 
 
the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

My set up for looping (Falcon & OS 50 on 15% CP

OK,,, now I'm not some great flyer !!, I'm just looping and rolling, flying and hovering nose in,,, now because I'm not so good of a flyer I really need my heli to fly as smooth as it can !!, and I know if I have my Fly Bar Weighs all the way out at the Fly Paddles the heli will fly at it's smoothest, right,,, so to keep it smooth I left the Fly Bar Weighs all the way out,,, but to quicken things up I removed the 2 Short Balls for the Radius Links (on the inner Star of the Swash Plate) and I replaced them with 2 longer Medium-long Balls (part # CNLR1011), and I run both my Aileron & Elevator Dual Rates set at 100% and 125%, I fly and hover at 100% and I loop & roll at 125%, and I can loop with my D-Rates at 100% too !! ,,, the Dual Rates work fine for me now, but most likely I will change it later-on when my flying improves and I understand my 8103 radio better !!
So anyway I was looping tightly today with my Fly Bar waight all the way out at the Fly Paddles, so I know it can be done !!


Jim
When you reach the end do it over again,,, as Billt said !!
08-18-2002 Over year old.
 
 
jimmyhua
Veteran
Location: Guam

Wasp, take a chance.

Wasp,

I think you should move those flybar weights to the center, and see how it feels. Just hover her around. I think, you'll be pleasantly surprised to see that the Falcon is stable as a ROCK.

The nice thing about the weights, is that you can put them anywhere along the flybar and tune it to the feel you want. Just make sure the flybar is perfectly balanced after every adjustment, and that you have the set-screws in tight!!

Personally, I am removed my flybar weights and went with the default mixing (what you changed). And it flys nice and smooth.

Currently my Falcon is having some heli-gremlins that need to be dealt with though (lots of glitching).

Jimmy
08-18-2002 Over year old.
 
 
svanwhy
Heliman
Location: Tague, Korea

ALEXANDER

The countersinking of the nut into the muffler is a grea idea! If I do that then I won't have to split the framed and install a longer bolt. I'll just remove the muffler countersink a nut and put a lockwasher on the hex side of the bolt, it should stay put. The tricky part will be to countersink the nut with the facets the same as the nut so It won't have to be held while tightening.
08-18-2002 Over year old.
 
 
LongbowAV8R
Senior Heliman
Location: Aberdeen, MD

Jimmyhua....glitching

Jimmy, is your glitching Gremlin still residing in your Falcon?

Cory

P.S. I'll write a very probable cause of the issue if you are still experiencing it... otherwise, I don't want to take up too much bandwith

Never Leave Your Wingman!!!
The models will (and normally do) follow me everywhere....
08-23-2002 Over year old.
 
 
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Century Hawk - Falcon - Raven - Predator > Falcon 50 3d flips and rolls
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