rrTV-PHOTO   New HD TV
HOME   rrTV-PHOTO   GALLERIES   MY GALLERY   HELP-FAQ
myHOME PM pmRR MEMBERS 719 ONLINE 20 EVENTS SEARCH REGISTER  START HERE
 
1 page814 viewsPOST REPLY
Advantage Hobby . Revolution Models . CarbonXtreme

.
.
Aerobatic FAI F3C Contest > Expo v Servo Delay in F3C
 
 
T.C.
Veteran
Location: Nottingham. England.

Do any of you F3C guy's use servo delay instead of expo, I'm not upto F3C standard but maybe sportsman standard, but I use servo delay on pitch, ail, ele & it seems to work ok for me for hovering manoeuvre's, in idle up 2 I take the delay's out.

I know some also use Dual Rates, anyone give me reason's why you would use this & when it would be used.





Tony
05-18-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Jon Roger
Senior Heliman
Location: Stavanger, Norway

In hovering I prefer to use little or no expo and use dual rates to tone down the response. You dont need much response for hovering, and I feel that linear response makes it easier to control the heli precisely than with a lot of expo.

For the aerobatics I feel the need for a little more response, so there I use a higher dual rate and a little expo to make it easier to enter and exit the manouvers precisely and smooth.

Using servo delay sounds like a bad idea to me.(never tried though)
If you are hovering in gusty wind conditions you might want to make some fast corrections every now and then, and I think your servo delays might screw things up.
05-20-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
nighttrain
Senior Heliman
Location: Louisville KY

Tony

Delay on cyclics sounds like a bad idea as mentioned. However, on the rudder, depending on your gyro and radio, it could help soften the start / stop and allow a tiny bit more gain. I'm writting because people here use a ton of expo, sometimes max. We never use D/R's. most here just change expo and rpm if wind picks up. I hope this helps. Doug
05-29-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Secret Squirrel
Key Veteran
Location: New Zealander living in Melbourne, Australia

I'm with Colin on this one, I use -20% to get a more linear feeling and then use Dual Rate to soften the rest.

I wouldn't be a fan of servo delay on anything (especially rudder!) apart from perhaps pitch on an MCCPM machine that is very pitch sensitve and you have a fast collective servo. Other than that, I would NOT use it.

When doing F3C you are making a LOT of minute adjustments and you want the servos to be quick to respond to those, not lagging behind.

Si

-------------
Simon Lockington
05-29-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
zoom boy
Key Veteran
Location: N.E. Lincolnshire UK

Actually on futaba gear its -27%, + for JR.
07-17-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Jim Mahoney
Senior Heliman
Location: San Jose, CA U.S.A.

Servo delay would be a bad idea.

In a control system servo delay would be Lag in the system response which means you would be trying to correct for something after it happens which is already the case most of the time, and the more delay the harder it is to correct. The best control systems use Feed Forward to catch up so to say - you are so in tune with your helicopter that you know when and how much control to input ahead of time and you input the control ahead of time, just enough to be right on time effectively - you made up for the delay!

What you want is to have quick control but at a reduced rate, expo and/or dual rate and this is going to be different for each person and if you are like me different on different days and weather conditions.

In my experience trying to control something with a lot of delay in the control system causes me to use large control inputs in an effort to get things under control where a quick responding system allows me to use small control inputs.

Enough control delay will cause you to chase your tail, the control and response will be out of phase.

In any case I have all the control delay I need and then some Right between my ears!

Happy Flying,
Cherokee Jim Mahoney
08-04-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Dr.Ben
Elite Veteran
Location: Richmond, VA, USA

In certain applications, servo delay is a splendid feature. The place that I most commonly use it is in rolls. Today's eCCPM models with strong and fast servos tied to a fast radio like the MZ really respond too quickly to a roll command if that command is not smoothly input. If you slmm the stick over, the model will corkscrew even if trimmed well. Many of us flying F3C use multipoint pmixes to set the model's nose at the start of the rolls and which demand that the rate at which the stick is deflected be the same EVERY SINGLE TIME. Try that sometime if you think it's easy. It ain't. By using the speed feature in the MZ which slows the servos down as desired, I can pace the roll rate of the model so that the roll entry is VERY consistent. I came up with this trick after listening to Wayne Mann explain how critical it was to maintain consitency in stick movement. I also know that the alternate pilot on the current USA F3C team, Dwight Shilling, is using the feature. I don't use it everywhere or even in most places, but where its indicated, it can really make you fly better.

RE the AFR/Dual rates, the majority of the US F3C pilots that I know of and myself DO use AFR to set the max control rate needed for a maneuver and then EXPO to reduce any PIO while flying into, through, or out of said maneuver. Curtis, Scott, and maybe Len might approach this differently because their head set ups are a bit different from the more classic lower hovering headspeed and higher bell hiller ratios. The liability with using expo alone to modify control authority is that at some point an expo curve must catch up to reach the total throw that is set. If you happen to get forced into the steep part of the expo curve by something like a stiff wind gust, you will undoubtedly see an abrupt change in the "set" of the model, speaking here especially about hovering in heavy winds.

Ben Minor
08-09-2005 Over year old.
 
 
1 page814 viewsPOST REPLY
Midland Helicopters . HeliProz . ZoomsHobbies

.
.
Aerobatic FAI F3C Contest > Expo v Servo Delay in F3C
 PRINT TOPIC Advertisers 

Subscribe to This Topic

Friday, November 21 - 6:48 pm - Copyright © 2000 - 2008 runryder.com | email | link to rr | runryder needs cookie