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Midland Helicopters . HeliProz . ZoomsHobbies

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Aerobatic FAI F3C Contest > F3C basic settings
 
 
Dr.Ben
Elite Veteran
Location: Richmond, VA, USA

Doing the flipping pullback and getting through it is no big deal. But if you read the judging criteria for the maneuver, it becomes a whole different animal. Symmetry, centering, keeping the model flipping on it's own axis while losing zero altitude make it a bitch. I don't know of anyone who has been terribly troubled by the backwards flight per se. The dynamics of a backwards traveling flip done to the standard of the judging is the challenge. The other issue here is that a model that would be truly optimized to do a wicked flipping pullback is not going to be one that you'd necessarily care to park over a cone in a gale. The more pushed a set up is to execute a maneuver, the more chance you have of screwing it up. Finally, you've not seen an adventure until you've watched someone wrestle a flipping pullback with a fuse model in a stiff crosswind. I watched the likes of Wayne Mann have a model switch ends on him at least once in practice for the Nats due to a tail stall.

Ben Minor
07-16-2007 Over year old.
 
 
GM1
Elite Veteran
Location: Tallahassee, Florida US

Correct

Ben is absolutely correct. The Plucking Fullback is not hard to do, it's just really hard to do well. There are a ton of little corrections needed to hold it on line, hold heading, and hold altitude. If the model gets out of sorts at all, it takes a BIG correction, and, God help you if you go the wrong way as the model will just swap ends and you get a zero.
Heck, nearly any 3D pilot can get through these maneuvers but the trick is to do them centered, at a constant speed, and symmetrically. I wish more of the 3D guys would try this a little. It would make their 3D a lot more accurate, like Curtis and Scotty. Either of those would be good choices to emulate.
Gordie

On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.
07-16-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Henrik Engert
Key Veteran
Location: Cedar Park, TX

Quote 
AND I don't have to do that @#$%^%$@!!! flipping pullback any more

What do you mean? The A schedule will still be there. The C replaces current B. Current B does not replace current A right? If I look at the schedule it says A is for 2006-2009, B is for 2006-2007 and C is for 2008-2009. This tells me current B will be C next year.
07-17-2007 Over year old.
 
 
GM1
Elite Veteran
Location: Tallahassee, Florida US

LOL!!!!!

It means that for the next couple of months, I will be flying C schedule exclusively and not even think about A schedule or the Plucking Fullback. You are correct in that B replaces C and we still qualify with A.
Thank God, they made C10 just an S auto, not the original with the backwards 180 for the second half.
Gordie

On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.
07-17-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Henrik Engert
Key Veteran
Location: Cedar Park, TX

Ok. I understand hehehe.

I was going to ask about that auto if there was a piro in the middle or not. I think that auto would have been way too dangerous...

So, when I move to the US (in december...plan is going along as planned), I guess I better start doing the C-schedule instead of the B then. How does the qualification work in the US at competitions? Does everyone always fly the B?
07-17-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Four Stroker
Veteran
Location: Atlanta

Hey Gordie

I just downloaded the AMA Heli Regulations 2007-2008 revised 4/07. Where are the diagrams of the maneuvers ? A picture is worth a thousand words.
07-17-2007 Over year old.
 
 
oldboldpilot
Key Veteran
Location: Southern California

http://usa-f3c.com/img/F3C_2006_presentation_may.pdf

Helis are Man's Defiance of the Laws of Nature - OCHC
07-17-2007 Over year old.
 
 
ErichF
Key Veteran
Location: Odessa, FL 33556 (Tampa Area)

There are none. If you're handy with autocad or something, go crazy!

Erich

Team Kyosho Regional Field Representative
07-17-2007 Over year old.
 
 
ErichF
Key Veteran
Location: Odessa, FL 33556 (Tampa Area)

OldBold, if you re-read his post, he said AMA RULES. I know people confuse the two all the time. There are no diagrams of the new AMA schedules.

Team Kyosho Regional Field Representative
07-17-2007 Over year old.
 
 
PCOMUD
Heliman
Location: Udonthani Thailand

Post common good.

UP!
09-27-2007 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
GM1
Elite Veteran
Location: Tallahassee, Florida US

2009 schedules

We are just now starting to work with the 2009 schedules and"C" schedule is a killer. It looks like we may have to make some changes to the models to get through everything in a timely fashion. The hovering is different in that everything is now moving all the time and we have to move the model accurately while nose in, something we have never had to do before. We are also having to change directions without stopping, also new.

C Schedule includes;

HOVERING
1. Hovering Hourglass 2
Each leg of the hourglass has a 180 piro plus a reverse 180 piro plus one across the top
2. Pirouetting Hexagon
Move back piro 90, move up 45 degrees, piro 90, move up 45 degrees, piro 90, move nose in across the top, reverse piro 90, move down 45 degrees, reverse piro 90, move down 45 degrees, reverse piro 90.
3. Vertical Rectangle
A 4 pt piro up and a 4 pt piro down with a traveling piro across the top.

AEROS
4.4 Point Roll
Whoopee!
5. Two Reverse Outside loops
'Nuff said.
6.Knife Edge Cobra roll with 450 piro
Pretty easy to do but hard to get symmetrical
7. Figure M with 540s
Inverted half loop in the middle.
8.Horizontal eight with full rolls
Basically like a Cuban Eight but a full roll so it turns into an inside outside horizontal eight.
9. Vertical Spike
Pullup with quarter roll, pull to inverted and a three pt 270 piro.
If you piro in the wrong direction, you exit the wrong direction and get a zero.
10 S Auto

I'm working really hard and not seeing much improvement. Thank God I have until next July before the NATs.
Gordie
09-27-2007 Over year old.
 
 
RCHelicopterGuy
Veteran
Location: Michigan

Personally, I'm bummed that they changed it to an S-auto. I was looking forward to seeing the best in the world back it in!
09-27-2007 Over year old.
 
 
GM1
Elite Veteran
Location: Tallahassee, Florida US

S Auto

Dude, I did that thing about 5 times. If a crosswind is blowing, it's a crash. I bailed out of several before I figured that out. In no wind or a light wind down the runway, it's pretty cool but a serious wind or crosswind, it's a crash. Before they took it out, I think several people crashed trying it.
Gordie

On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.
09-27-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Henrik Engert
Key Veteran
Location: Cedar Park, TX

Quote 
7. Figure M with 540s
Inverted half loop in the middle.


Man, I must check my eyes, or learn to read. I totally missed the inverted half loop I thought it was a little bit too easy

Anyway. So now I have only done the 4 point roll...

I was out the other day and was determined to start the C schedule, but only did the 4 point roll and performed the figure M wrong.

It's a killer schedule, but it is a lot of fun so far.
09-27-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Secret Squirrel
Key Veteran
Location: New Zealander living in Melbourne, Australia

Woah, hold on, I must have the old schedule or something? I was still doing the auto with a 180 and backing it in (and increasing my heart rate massively at the same time!). I had to bail out of that thing a lot.

So is it just a normal S auto now? No 180 piro?

Henrik, I also missed the fact it was an inverted half loop as well , we were thinking it was all a bit easy too (apart from that damn auto)!

Si

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Simon Lockington
09-27-2007 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Dr.Ben
Elite Veteran
Location: Richmond, VA, USA

Yep, no more piro.

Ben
09-28-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Royrex
Senior Heliman
Location: TN USA

Whats an S auto, as compared to a normal auto.
09-28-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Henrik Engert
Key Veteran
Location: Cedar Park, TX

Quote 
Whats an S auto, as compared to a normal auto

S Auto is just the shape of the auto. It is still a normal autorotation but you come down in the shape of an S.

The A schedule has a 180 degree turn and the old B had two 90 degree turns.
09-28-2007 Over year old.
 
 
GM1
Elite Veteran
Location: Tallahassee, Florida US

Model changes

I suspect that I will need a faster roll rate for "C" than I had last year for "B." For sure I will initially until I get to where I sort of do these automatically. The eight with full rolls is a pain if you let the nose drop too far as there's no bail out until the model comes upright. I have gotten pretty close to the ground a couple of times without meaning too.
I also am having to make gyro changes for the Cobra roll as the spin rate for the 450 is not as constant as I want. I may have to go to a 3D setting in the gyro and/or use longer TR blades. I want to experiment some first before I do that though as if I run 105mm TR blades, I drag them in the autos and ding the trailing edges on a fairly regular basis and TR blades aren't exactly cheap.
Gordie

On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.
09-28-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Bond007
Senior Heliman
Location: Leicestershire UK

Gordie

What difference does hard versus soft dampers make ?

Sean
11-09-2007 07:03 PM
 
 
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HeliHobby . Ron’s HeliProz South . Century Helicopter

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Aerobatic FAI F3C Contest > F3C basic settings
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