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Gyro Hobbies . E-flite . Next D

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Engines Plugs Mufflers Fuel > Temperature of engines.
 
 
S_Ciambra
Senior Heliman
Location: Palermo - Sicily - Italy

Hi
Which is the optimal temperature of operation of our engines for helicopters?
Thanks

Salvatore Ciambra
Gruppo Elicotteri R/C "Ready to Win" - Palermo - Italy
08-06-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Brian Bennett
Key Veteran
Location: Dugway/Tooele UT, USA

For a two-stroke most say 220-230 F measured at the cylinder head. See notes on the Heliproz site, be careful temp isn't everything. listen to the engine, hear its words!

--gI
08-06-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
wjvail
Senior Heliman
Location: Meridian, Mississippi

Like the man says temp isn't everything. A temp gage will usually only tell you what you should already know; that is, your engine is running fine.

I've used a temp gage for MANY years and my target number is around 240 but some engines run at 300 and some at 190.

It is somewhat suprizing to me that this 240 number doesn't vary much from cars to heli's to airplanes to boats...

Bill Vail
08-12-2002 Over year old.
 
 
RappyTappy
Elite Veteran
Location: Las Vegas, NV

For a YS .61 STII, it is best to keep the temp at about 180.

Chris
Xero G

Forever Brothers
Mickey Tylo
08-12-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
JCadwell
Key Veteran
Location: Richland WA/ Morro Bay, CA

So I bought a venom temp monitor with high hold, and am going to mount it on my Fury's 91, around the body of the cylinder, with the probe in between two fins. Right now, since the engine is newish, I'm running it in very very rich, and the backplate is cool (not even noticeably warm), and I keep leaning it click at a time. I started almost 2.5 out, and am down to perhaps 1 and 3/4 out, on Mach 7 15%. The guys around here are running there 91's around 140-150, and burning 30%. Any temp reccomendations? Thanks.

Thanks, John Cadwell
08-13-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Dazzler
Elite Veteran
Location: Ohio

After I fly my Venture with the OS32, I take a temp reading, and get between 235-250, and it runs great at that. My Freya with YS80 , after 10 minute flight I get a reading of 125 degrees, seems cool, but it runs great, and has plenty of power. I'm wondering if I should lean it some more. Daz...
08-13-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
wjvail
Senior Heliman
Location: Meridian, Mississippi

Questions like the ones below really scare me. My recomendation is to tune your engine for the desired performance and then, if you'd like, look at the tempature. You are looking at the problem backwards if you think you can tune your engine for a temp and then expect good performance. The car guys are really bad about this.

An example may help... The other day I was at the track and a fella said his car wouldn't perform the way he expected. I ask him to drive it some so I could see what it was doing. In about 10ft it was clear it was (very) rich and really struggleing to step up on the pipe. I told him he needed to lean it out some to which he replied, "I was told 205 was a good temp"(!) I was a little shocked but suggested he needed to lean it out some. To which he responed "what temp should I lean it out too?". To make a long story short, we put the temp gun away and tuned his engine for good performance. Some time before he went home he took a reading and it was 265....if anyone cares what the temp was...

A temp gage should only tell you what you already know. That is, your engine is tuned fine. 240 is a target value but if you are getting the performace you desire at 190 or 300, that's OK. If you ever look at your temp reading and it says 425 you should already know, your engine is not running well. Same if you check it and it says 125.

Bill Vail






"...after 10 minute flight I get a reading of 125 degrees, seems cool, but it runs great, and has plenty of power. I'm wondering if I should lean it some more. Daz..."


"The guys around here are running there 91's around 140-150, and burning 30%. Any temp reccomendations?"
08-13-2002 Over year old.
 
 
JCadwell
Key Veteran
Location: Richland WA/ Morro Bay, CA

Part of the reason for using a temp gauge is to verify engine operation with a governer. If the engine is overly lean, it is possible to have a helicopter that flys well, without much bogging, until the thing blows up. Maybe people are a little bit temperature crazy, but once you take the direct link of pitch curve to throttle curve out of the equation, it gets harder to tune. I am trying to get a ballpark to determine what would be too high mostly. The car guys seem to be okay with replacing engines frequently, and demanding maximum performance. The 91 is already overkill for the Fury. I want to find a compromise between fuel consumption, and engine reliability, and one indicator in that system is temperature, though certainly not the only indicator.

Thanks, John Cadwell
08-13-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Dazzler
Elite Veteran
Location: Ohio

"That is, your engine is tuned fine. 240 is a target value but if you are getting the performace you desire at 190 or 300, that's OK"




wjvail, I tune my engine by ear 1st, and take a temp reading of where I'm at as far as the temp. Its a way of double checking, it doesnt hurt anything to take a temp. You can have a engine thats running great at a setting, and take a temp of 300, and your too lean. Just cause it runs at that temp doesnt mean that a good operating temp. Run lean like that, and you can look forward to a deadstick after running for 12 minutes of 300 degrees. A temp gage is a good thing once you get use to where the engine likes to run at, you can easily maintain that temp, from day to day. Daz...
08-13-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
RappyTappy
Elite Veteran
Location: Las Vegas, NV

So, if I get good performance, but my engine is running at 300 degrees thats ok? I don't think an engine is going to last that long at those temps. If I see a YS .61 getting over 200 degrees, even if its bogging, I don't recommend leaning it out. Although you are saying thats exactly what I should do. In some weather you get less power, but you don't overcompensate by tuning the motor to an ungodly temp and saying its just ok. A temp is a very viable source of information on the operation of the motor and if you can check it, use it.

Chris
Xero G

Forever Brothers
Mickey Tylo
08-13-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
wjvail
Senior Heliman
Location: Meridian, Mississippi

Howdy Rappy,

This has taken strange turn...I think we are arguing the same point!

Have you ever had your ST .60 running well at 300 deg? You are probably right that this would not be the ideal temp. Once in my 35+ years of modeling have I tuned an engine for good performance and check the temp at over 290deg. I have over 350 model engines and modifed many more for others. I'll say it again, 240 is a good target number but varies with fuel, pipe and many other things.

The whole point of my message was that you should tune your engine FIRST then check the temp.

DAZ wrote:
"You can have a engine thats running great at a setting, and take a temp of 300, and your too lean." "Run lean like that, and you can look forward to a deadstick after running for 12 minutes of 300 degrees." Does it sound like this engine is running great? If it is lean and dead sticking, it is NOT running great and yes the temp gage should tell you what you should already know! You may check the temp and if it says 300+deg, you CONFIRMED it was lean... but you should have already known that. If you didn't know which it was, lean or rich, you need help from the guys at the field.


Some have made the point that it is a good tuning aid. That is very true. Don't get me wrong. I have and use temp gages. I have had a RayTec since before they were seen in modeling. I have 4 MIP temp gages. Performace tuning is a combination of things and temp can be used... but not to set the needle but only to confirm it. This is not what Daz was doing when he wrote "My Freya with YS80 , after 10 minute flight I get a reading of 125 degrees, seems cool, but it runs great, and has plenty of power. I'm wondering if I should lean it some more?" He was asking should I change my needle setting because of the observed temp... not the other way around. It sounds like he does what I advocate but is asking a different question.

For the record, if you have set your needles and are in fact getting good performance, and you check the temp and it says 125deg... you should check your temp gage. Here in Mississippi the gage reads 100 with the engine not running!

Going with my wife to Hattiesbug today and gotta go. Fly some for me.

Bill Vail
08-13-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Dazzler
Elite Veteran
Location: Ohio

wjvail, your not getting me!! If I tune my engine by ear, and after numerous flights, I think that the temp could run a little leaner. I would like to run it leaner to get better fuel consumption. I have a YS80, and getting it to a good setting, results in better fuel economy, the YS80 can go through too much fuel if running it fat. I like to sneak up on the ideal setting using both ear and temp readings. I am at this point still running rich, and slowly getting it where I want it. I'm not going to stop leaning it just because it runs at that setting, I like to get the engine running where it likes to run, and results in better fuel economy, and performance.

Also, the way I tune my engine I've never had a deadstick because of being too lean, that is why I like to slowly get it where I want it.
I've been tuning engines for 12 years, and dont think I need any help at the field.

wjvail, when you initially read my post , you didnt know that this is a new engine, and I have been running very rich, and just starting to lean it out for optimum running, and before typing my post above I was running at 100 degrees, it ran great then, but the fuel economy sucked. Then I leaned it out a little, and obtained the 125 degree's, I was merely trying to hear from other guys what they thought about the 125 degrees.Anyway, you have your way, I have mine and my system has been working for me.

BTW wjvail you said in your post above that if you take a reading of 300 degree's thats OK, not me I would never run my engine at 300 degrees
Bottomline, the temp gage is a very useful tool!!! Daz...
08-13-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
JSaleska
Senior Heliman
Location: Navarre FL

The 220 degree number comes from a tempurature that the fuel properly atomizes in the combustion chamber -- If I'm not mistaken.

A good fuel spray give better power then just dripping fuel into the chamber. Conversly -- if it's too hot then you will loose power because the air has to expand to make power. If the temps are too hot to begin with then the air won't expand efficiently and you'll loose power.

Not to mention the damage to the metal running that hot.

My OS 91 likes about 180 to 190 on the temps, but I'm checking it after I fly as fast as I can and come in fast and then walk up to it -- spool down the head -- set my TX down and then tilt it up to check it with the temp gun.

In flight though I bet it's closer to 220 though.

The temp gauges are a great little TOOL to help set the engine after you have found what temp it runs best at. You must do the same procedure prior to checking it to get any kind of consistency though. You can't shoot a fast approach one time and check it, and then the next time you climb out and auto in and check it.

Just my .02 cents

Jon Sends
Team Mastercard
RC Helis Are 35% MX, 50% BS, & 15% FLY
08-13-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
JCadwell
Key Veteran
Location: Richland WA/ Morro Bay, CA

Where are you reading the temperature... On the bottom of the head, the cylinder fins, or the crankcase. THanks

Thanks, John Cadwell
08-13-2002 Over year old.
 
 
JSaleska
Senior Heliman
Location: Navarre FL

I usually find the hottest temp just behind the cylinder head on the bottom. I just keep the trigger pulled and keep moving the gun around until I get the hottest spot.

That's another thing to consider if using the Temp loop for the on board temp monitors. Just because someone with a temp gun is getting a certain temp if your loop isn't in the exact spot that theirs is then the temps will read differently.

Once again -- YOU must find the temp where your engine runs best with the methods you are using to collect the data.

Jon Sends
Team Mastercard
RC Helis Are 35% MX, 50% BS, & 15% FLY
08-13-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
RC8V8ter
Heliman
Location: McAdoo,PA

Temps

I would like to add before even having my Temp gun I tuned my engine by ear and preformance also...BUT I would check the Temp of the Crank Case Plate on the bottom of the motor by touch.....I would never run a engine at 300 degrees for the simple fact that in any motor Heat
is a bad thing I should say excessive heat..300 degrees is hot and I will almost bet my last dollar when you removed your muffler there was a lot of brown tarnish in the exhaust port....That is a bad thing if ya read your instruction manual....I run my engines between 180 and 210 degrees
based on preformance adjustments for weather conditions...There is nothing like that distintive smell of oil burning when the engine is running hot......
08-17-2002 Over year old.
 
 
RC8V8ter
Heliman
Location: McAdoo,PA

Engine Temp

I forgot the most important factor ........I'm running CoolPower 15%
08-17-2002 Over year old.
 
 
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