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Safety - RC Helis are not toys > Saw something REALLY UGLY at the flying field today
 
 
blazen
Senior Heliman
Location: California

I will apologize to anyone I offended.

But this subject gets me really HOT

It just seems like this whole new bread of heli pilot thinks in $$$
You can tell just by looking at what is popular in helicopters $1500.00 radios $350 gyros $179.00 digital servos $200.00 CF Blades and a $150.00 painted canopy all in a $1200 helicopter that they paid some one to build because there time is to valuable. What they don’t tell you is that there valuable time is spent playing on the internet or watching TV. Its just not a Hobby if you have to pay someone to do it for you.

It just seems like they think they can buy there proficiency. Unfortunately Most of the people that buy this stuff can’t really afford it thats why they are making such a big deal about all this you break it you bought it crap.I'm sure I would be upset if my familie and kids went with out so I could have a $1200 heli Becouse a Falcon was not flashy enough.

It used to be in this hobby that you where proud of what you built and even more proud that it flew. Not that you could spend the most to have the flashiest Heli or Plane. It’s a real shame that this is the trend. I used to enjoy going to the flying site and looking at the new Scale Piper CUB OR JET RANGER that some one put hundreds of hours into. I can care less how much you PAID for your BIRD. I have more respect for the Kid that comes out with an old Concept that has seen its better day and is not overwhelmed and discouraged maybe even scared off by all the flashy NEW HEli’s and all the garbage about it being need to fly. That is the real truth behind why there are so many bad Century post. People can't stand the fact that someone else Can enjoy this hobby without spending nearly as much as they did..
08-07-2002 10:27 PM
 
 
Malorie
Elite Veteran
Location: Paw squared, MI

Blazen,

I tend to agree with you. It is especially appearent in the plank world right now with all the ARFs availible. I see quite a few pilots that come out with ARFs who wouldn't dream of building a plane form a KIT, much less PLANS, or god forbid SCRATCH. When they do decide that they want something other than an ARF, they run to the local swap and buy someone elses junk bird and try to get you to get it to fly. Then the moment that they solo, they want to fly like an old pro. They crash until the disillusion wears off, then you never see them again.

Any way what happened to play nice together and show eachother some respect, on the field and here?

Life's a journey, NOT a destination.
08-07-2002 10:43 PM
 
 
Raymond
Senior Heliman
Location: Northern Ireland

I have to agree with Blazen on some of his points anyway. You only need to look at the number of posts for VERY basic information from people claiming to be learning to fly 3d. How did they set up the heli when learning to hover ?

There are people who ask for information when repairing helis that they should have know when they were checking it over BEFORE crashing.

One that springs to mind was someone asking if he could repair the tail hub with epoxy ?... and he put up a post to say it worked !

Helis ARE dangerous, and are more likely to be percieved by onlookers as being dangerous due to the large and fast rotating rotors, but also because the pilot flies it very close to himself.

Some of the threads I have seen here illustrate downright dangerous practices, one guy said his heli went out of control in his front garden and just missed a car ?????

Is it any wonder there is critisism ?

No doubt somebody will jump in and say this doesnt happen, or doesnt happen very often ? If this is what you think then pay more attention to the threads you are reading.

Most people on this forum are very helpful, and its good to give advice to newcomers, but not so good if they go it alone and kill somebody.

The point made earlier about being able to put a heli down much quicker than a plank is true, but only if you are in control and dont panic.

It IS a dangerous hobby but risks CAN be minimised.

And yes, I do fly Helis, Planes (i.c. and electric) and gliders
08-07-2002 10:51 PM
 
 
Harbinger
Veteran
Location: alberta

You have to start somewhere

Some of us do not have the luxury of a "3D" expert to help us setup our helicopters. If your out there and someone is flying with his curves messed up why do you sit there and bitch about how poor his machine is setup? Help the poor bastard maybe he is going about learning how to setup on his own. You can read all you want but sometimes it doesnt click until you have someone walk you through it. Here at home ive pretty much learned most of this stuff by myself through trial and lots of errors I cant be bothered to fly scale cause that doesnt interest me at all. I paid for my stuff and as long as i fly it in a safe manner who are you to tell me what i should or shouldnt be doing. If I choose to fly a 1200.00 machine thats my choice too. If you want to fly a raptor type machine with a cheap gyro that would be your choice. When i buy a used machine i rip it all down and rebuilt it myself so i know i can trust it when im out flying. I also like knowing that ive spend money on the right type of radio gear and thats also one less thing i have to worry about. Theres room in the hobby for all types of interests. If you dont like spending money then dont but dont be knocking the fella that shows up sporting a fury extreme with all the goodies. HOW you give advice is just as important as the advice you give. Someone asks a question give him some advice thats why hes asking. May sound stupid but if its dangerous tell him. If he still insists on doing it his way dont help him anymore. I see a lot of the "Pros" do some stuff that looks cool but is way dangerous. A lot of guys copy that kind of thing (people are stupid go figure) Just cause you fly a vigor cs dont make ya cy. Theres all types of people that are out flying that shouldnt be....airplanes, helis or whatever. I just dont take my stuff out when they are flyin
08-07-2002 11:20 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
TeleHeli
Heliman
Location: Jacksonville Fl

Let me restate my line of thinking here. OK

Someone here stated that the pilot that had crashed also had "Asumed a Risk" and should have to pay for the "JET" he crashed into. I say OK yeah. In the good ole days that might have been fair. BUT, the member with the $10.000.00 jet is now forcing all other members to take a unfairly large "Asumed Risk". And I think his logic is flawed!!!!!!!!!!

EX. Say someone shows up with a 100k Yamaha heli. Following that logic, all members that are not rich corporate ceo's, now have to pack up and go home because they can not afford to take the risk of accidentaly destroying that heli ( I'm talking true accidents here were the pilot tried to be safe). So if your rich enough you get the whole field to yourself because your fellow members can no longer afford to fly with you there. You still think thats fair? geez

Thats My Point!

That was an extreme example but thats how that logic would work. I still say that no safe flying member should be forced to take that risk just because you have to have a $10,000.00 jet your turbine heli. And frankly I'm shocked that anybody would. Besides, we all know that the average flyer could never pay that bill even if they wanted to.
08-08-2002 02:10 AM
 
 
blazen
Senior Heliman
Location: California

Quote
>>>I just love how you say: how you hate it when you just HAVE to step in every time a juvinile heli pilot gets mouthy, hummm, I wonder why you say just only heli pilots get mouthy?<<<

I thought it was obvious
It was because Myself and a few friends approached a group of Fixed wing pilots who's flying Site was being threatened. I proposed that the two clubs combine resources to save the site and then share the same site. So $10,000.00 of my own money and 10,000.00 from the heli club and the site was saved. Later on that year I invested another 15,000.00 of my own money and brought water and power to the site it was sure nice to see the out houses replaced by nice indoor His and Hers plumbing.
(Why is it that the hers is always cleaner??) even nicer was the sprinkler system and the sod No longer do the Helicopter pilots have to fly of a hot dusty ground. No now they have nice cool grass and nice covered Pits specially designed for helis. So everytime a long time member has a problem with a heli Pilot I get to hear about it (Lucky Me). All I can think of is I don’t remember either one of you with a shovel helping dig the trench for the water or where were you when we were looking for volunteers to mow the grass. All I hear is I’m to busy !! Well I guess your not to busy to get on the phone and stir up a hornets nest that threatens to tear apart everything everyone but you has worked so hard to build.
And why because someone broke your dam toy.
Well I have news for you it has happened before and it will happen again.I agree If its out of shear stupidity then the person responsible should offer to pay. If he does not then He is the one who has to live in shame and be shunned. I guess the times of honor among gentleman has been replaced by vulgarity and threats.
08-08-2002 02:19 AM
 
 
blazen
Senior Heliman
Location: California

and its 550 Acres

Quote
>>>so why do you even bother to slum-it with the rest of us poor, low-income flyers? Does it make ya feel superior? Just because we can't afford 500 acres <<

and its 550 Acres... I was lucky enough to Inherent most of “300 Acres” from a close friend that just passed away. Funny thing is that I bought the first 250 from him 10 years ago

You know nothing about me or how I earned what I have. You have no right to make assumptions of what I consider or think of others. If you knew anything about me you would be ashamed to make such a personal attack on my character.


Blazen
08-08-2002 03:56 AM
 
 
Buzz1167
Senior Heliman
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow

Well classic, don't mean to piss you off, but I think youve got a pretty big "back yard" yourself. And I (meaning our family) has a little less than a square mile of "flying field". I'm just saying- don't put yourself off to be the poor man. But it seems that you two guys are fightin over different things.
Classic, you are assuming the general stupidity of the public
Blazen, you are assuming the general unsafety of the hobby

Classic is correct is saying that, "if it's your fault then you should pay" HE is saying that someone is just trying something he/she can't do and in an unsafe manner somehow dumb thumbs it into the pitts and blows up a new 1 billion $ jet. The the pilot should be expected to put up some dough to pay for it.

Blazen is correct in saying that, "If its not your fault, then how can you be expected to pay" He is saying that if someone is flying along obeying all the rules and some dumb-f... turns on his transmitter thats on the same freq. and the chopper goes into lockout and plows into the pitts, how can it be the pilots fault? Or maybe even the chopper throws a blade that smashes the new guapner turbine heli into bits, The pilot did nothing wrong, How can he/she be expectied to buy a new turbine?

Buzz1167
Jon N
08-08-2002 04:12 AM
 
 
blazen
Senior Heliman
Location: California

Malorie


Thanks for the nice words.

I agree it seems like ARF’s are a double edged sword. On one had they make it much easer for Hobbyist to get in the air and even possible for people with limited resources to enjoy this hobby.

But on the other hand there are those people that only learn respect for what others have done By doing the same for themselves.

It’s those people that have little respect for our hobby or the hours we invest. Fortunately there interest is usually short lived.

I personally have nothing against ARF’s In fact tonight at the hobby shop I met a boy who just put one together. I was so impressed with the quality. After He left I bought one for myself. Mine is only a 20 size Happy-fly. I have this lonely little OS26 four stroke that’s looking for a home. I’m hopping that the Young boy I met today will teach me how to put one of these dam ARF’s together on Sunday.. That reminds me I have a little story to put together so stay tuned

Blazen
08-08-2002 04:13 AM
 
 
blazen
Senior Heliman
Location: California

Buzz1167
Great response and pretty much on the nose.. Now how come I couldn’t just word it that way in the first place

Quote
>>big "back yard" yourself. And I (meaning our family) has a little less than a square mile of "flying field"<<

Shezzz and here I thought you where Riding a Used Scooter to the flying site

Come on now its all in fun.
08-08-2002 04:21 AM
 
 
MobileRaptor
Veteran
Location: Orange, Texas

blazen

I'm sorry I have to agree with you, less then ten percent of the avarage club roster will show up on an advertised work day or project day. Also it's the same people that show up everytime. The best way is not to tell anybody that this certain sat. is a work day except the people that would show up anyway. Then grab all the ones that show up to fly and put them to work. It seems that the general conception is I Pay My Dues so I don't need to do anything else. Also if you notice, the ones that show up for workday are also the one that show up at meetings.

I'm the V.P. of a club, which also means I'm the Safety Officer, and as I'm sure it's happened to you and many other club officers someone always comes up and says sonso did this or sonso did that. This usually followed by what are you going to do about it. Well I use to try to run down every little infraction, But now I tell them I'm going to do the same thing they did, nothing!!! I didn't see so I'm not going to address it. I may be the Safety Officer as part of my club title but everyone in the club is a safety officer. Also if you want keep the club around you better help inforce the club and AMA safety rule. If I see an infraction I speak to the person, tell them what they did and explane why it's a rule. 90% percent of the time thats all it takes. I did have one person tell me he would follow the rules when everybody else did. I told him that that would be no problem, I'd have the club sec. cut him a check to reinburse him his dues and he could go somewhere else and fly and his flying privileges were suspended till the next club meeting. I pulled his card off the pin board and put it in my pocket.

Our field is a county lease, so not only do with have to follow AMA guide line we have to adhere to the county requirements.

One of the club rules is: You will not fly on the pit side of the runway. Period!!! So what is somebody doing flying over the pits. The only way an aircraft should be in flight in that area is if it's not under control. Like it's gone into failsafe, loss of radio control. God help the person who turned on with out the pin because he is now responsible for the aircraft that went in, he's also responsable for whatever it hit. and if you didn't have the pin, guess what, it's your fault.

There are always going to be accidents. Mid-Airs are accidents unless somebody was try to intentionally to fly close to you.

As for the $10,000.00 jet, most of the time the peson with that will wait for an opportunity to have the sky to themselves and everybody else want's to watch it anyway. So he's the only one in the air. Everybody wants to see that $10,000.00 hit the ground anyway.

The big thing is that everyone at the field is responsible for safety, safety of there own equipment, safety of how their flying and the safety of everyone else. If you see an act that is unsafe tell the person about it, if you don't want to confront the person by yourself get the guy next to you that saw it to go with you. If the person is not receptive to the constructive criticism then you and your buddy tell a club officer. If the officer doesn't do something about it then go to the next club meeting a raise holy hell.

If you see an unsafe act and there's not a club rule to cover it go to the meeting and bring it up.

Go to club meetings and see whats going on, put your two cents in, be involved, it's your club!!!!!!
08-08-2002 04:27 AM
 
 
blazen
Senior Heliman
Location: California

Quote
>>>where were YOU when the grass needed mowed..blah blah blah.."<<<

classic
shezzzz you are taking things to Literal or maybe my grammar is to hard to understand so do us a favor and please read it again but this time keep in mind that You are no where in that little story.
I was using an example of what I have had to deal with in the past and was quoting things I was thinking or have said.

I guess the point I was making is that it seems that the people that always Cry foul the loudest are the same people that are never around when the work at the flying site needs to be done..
08-08-2002 04:30 AM
 
 
blazen
Senior Heliman
Location: California

MobileRaptor

Very well Said
But why are you sorry that you have to agree with me, I took a shower this morning

I would not take your Job as VP or safety officer again. I have been there and done that. At One point with over 150 members I was Prez. Treasure and newsletter editor all at the same time after 2 years of that I walked out.. 3 years later My Ham radio club did the same thing to me that lasted one term. And I said no WAY Shezzzzz I was so done with clubs

Quote
>>>> Everkbody wants to see that $10,000.00 hit the ground anyway<<<<<
OK I’m done laughing now !!! YOU HIT the nail right on the head
08-08-2002 04:46 AM
 
 
TeleHeli
Heliman
Location: Jacksonville Fl

"Teli hubby"
I guess your refering to me?

<< just don't fly over the pitts where that high dollar baby is, don't fly over the parking lot, don't fly anywhere near or over people. Do it that way, and you will never have to worry about buying someone a new toy!!>>

No worries here as I also fly only at my private field. I offered the comment only for discussion. Once again to be clear, I was not refering to a pilot which would be flying unsafely or over the pits, but rather a crash caused by dumb thumbs, mechanical failure, or radio glitch, Ealier It seemed that it was being suggested that the pilot would be responsible under ANY conditions leading to an accident if it were caused by his plunging model. That still wouldn't be too much to ask in the days of $300.00 models but a turbine? No way. I say if you cannot afford for your model to be involved in a true accident, then don't bring it to the field. Pilot beware!
08-08-2002 04:47 AM
 
 
blazen
Senior Heliman
Location: California

Ok OK I give

classic
you are just misunderstanding my style of writing. Its not an attack on you I never said someone broke your toy >>>Your being YOU<<<


I was talking about an Incident at our flying site when an individual lost his motor and Auto’d his heli right on top of a plane getting ready for take off.

The heli pilot did his best, but since he had never learned to do Autos he did not do as well as others who practice them all the time would have.

No one bother to thank him for keeping it out of the pits. As far as I could tell he had two choices the pits or the runway. (Helicopter pilots can’t fly on the runway)

So as far as they see it he broke the rules so he should pay. I disagreed completely its not like he purposely flew a $1200.00 Heli into a $150.00 ARF Just to make trouble.
But Unfortunately the fool let his testosterone get the better of him and about started a fight over the whole mess. If he would have just listened and shut up things would have worked out. But he just had to keep mouthing off. This was a perfect example of how two testosterone filled morons can take a small issue and turn it into a club catastrophe

And just for the curious
The helicopter Won I think the balsa slowed the blades down enough that they did not do that Much damage to the Heli or the blades.
Carbon fiber Blades, Aluminum Skids, >> Balsa flying all over the place Ohhh it was an ugly site
08-08-2002 05:26 AM
 
 
blazen
Senior Heliman
Location: California

Raymond

I read the same post about the JB Weld on the broken Shuttle Tail Pitch plate.. It made a shudder run down my spine. What some people will do to save $10. I have to say I think I would blow my top if I found out something like that caused an injury
08-08-2002 05:33 AM
 
 
alvinrc
Veteran
Location: Mobile, AL, USA

blazen,

>>Very well Said
But why are you sorry that you have to agree with me, I took a shower this morning<<

Just to show how words can be taken the wrong way.
I read MobileRaptor's opening comment to mean that he is sorry that the discussed condition exists, not the fact that he is agreeing with you.

Everybody kiss and make up now in this thread.
08-08-2002 06:43 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
3DManA1
Senior Heliman
Location: Kansas City, Mo

I don’t care who caused the wreck or how it happened. I think Brazen should have to pay. What an ass. California is like a box of granola if it’s not a nut or a flake it’s a fruit. I think you fit right in.
08-08-2002 07:21 AM
 
 
Guardian
Senior Heliman
Location: Sarasota, Florida

Blazen well said
" The helicopter Won I think the balsa slowed the blades down enough that they did not do that Much damage to the Heli or the blades.
Carbon fiber Blades, Aluminum Skids, >> Balsa flying all over the place Ohhh it was an ugly site " sounds beautiful to me


What the hell are you thinking 3DManA1 ? I hope your joking.
"I think Brazen should have to pay. What an ass. California is like a box of granola if it’s not a nut or a flake it’s a fruit. I think you fit right in. "
08-08-2002 12:39 PM
 
 
MobileRaptor
Veteran
Location: Orange, Texas

blazen

Like, Alvin RC said, I sorry that I had to agree with you that people area the way they area.

The reason I took the job is: One, to help protect the helicopter interest at our feild. Two: I'm a retired Coast Guard Chief Engineer and have twenty years of experance at being a Safety Officer. The big differance is I didn't have to be nice about it in the Coast Guard.

Helo's Are up and coming on strong at our field, on any given day there is as many helo's as there are airplanes. Membership is about 20% helo's but there out every weekend and near every day.

There was something said once about overing over the runway but this was quickly squelched do to two reasons. One we have one very good RC plane pilot that flies a 40% Carden Edge 540 and he can torque roll it from one end of the runway to the other. Well, basically he's hovering a aircraft over the runway. If helicopters can't hover over the runway neither can he. Second, a helicopter doing an approach and coming into a hover and then back to forward flight is the same manuver as an airplane doing a touch and go. So if helo pilots can't pratice landing neither can fixed wings.

Understand please, were not talking about the helo hovering over the runway the whole flight. We have two other asphalted area just for hovering (Learing to hover). We also have an area were a helo pilot can work on low and slow (Basic Skills).

LIke I said before, the best thing the helicopter flyer can do is get involved with the club, go to the meeting, run for an officer position. All new rules and rule changes are done at the club meetings and there put into place by a majority vote of the members THAT ARE AT THE MEETINGS. It's not the majority of the club it's the people at the meeting that control everything. So it's in your interest to make sure every helo flyer is at the meeting to protect your rights. Otherwise you'll just be ruled right out of flying and you won't even know about it till it's to late.
08-08-2002 06:53 PM
 
 
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Safety - RC Helis are not toys > Saw something REALLY UGLY at the flying field today
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