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Autography FlightPower . Advantage Hobby . Revolution Models

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Audacity Models Pantera 50 - Tiger 50 > Test Flights Tiger 50
 
 
ivesdo
Heliman
Location: East Berne, NY

Guess I gotta put my $.02 in here. I'm one of the "moderately" experienced pilots that was involved in the checkout of the Tiger. I am just at loops and rolls in my flying evolution and flew the Tiger both days. What a machine. I was impressed with the quality of the ball joints, rods and connections on both the head and tail when I saw it at Toledo. When I flew it on Saturday, one thing stood out, it was smooooooth and easy to fly. Even showed up a "fault" that I had in my turns (opps, did I say that out loud ?). The changes doorman made for Sunday didn't change the machine much in forward flight, but what a performer and a joy to fly. Got to take the new raptor around the patch and I gotta tell ya, I think that my next heli will be a Tiger. Even though the raptor was set up for a beginner, you could really feel the difference in both hover and forward. Not into 3D yet (at least on purpose) so I can't tell you how that felt. This machine is a power house and looks to be a great step up from my .46
04-19-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
MichaelC
Senior Heliman
Location: Vermont

My impressions

I had the chance to test fly doorman's Tiger this past weekend and I was very impressed. Box stock the machine was very stable in a hover, smooth in fff and the hang-time in an auto was unbelievable for a 50 machine. And this was with the stock wooden blades After he tweeked the heli a little for Sunday I was able to try my hand with a little mild 3D. Nothing too fancy just a couple loops, rolls and inverted hovering but I was equally impressed. Tracking thoughout each manuever was dead-on and transitions were very smooth. Maybe this is due to doorman's setup skill but I think some of it has to be the quality of the machine.

I've been flying Raptors for the past 3 years and while I'm not ready to sell off my rappy's I would definately consider a Tiger for my next machine. I will also add them to my list of recommended heli's for a newbie.

Only time will tell if they can take the abuse a Raptor can...

Mike
04-20-2005 Over year old.
 
 
doorman
Elite Veteran
Location: E.Berne, NY

Pictures added!!!

I added some pictures to my gallery so that the insides could be seen...
Enjoy...

If there is a cure for this, please don't tell me about it!!!
04-21-2005 Over year old.
 
 
jvanscoyk
Veteran
Location: Tucson, AZ

Pictures of Tiger 50

Check out my gallery. I have several Tiger pictures listed.

Jim

must go faster, must go faster.........
04-21-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Billy Zimmerman
Key Veteran
Location: Rainier Oregon

got some pics here too

Raptor 90 SE YS91,Tiger50 OS50 Hyper, Vblades, OS&YS engines, Hitec Eclipse7
04-21-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
scottc
Key Veteran
Location: shakopee minnesota..USA

I have a good question here on the tiger , first i like it to.
Do you think this is a good heli for fuses to.

Hey I didn't ask for this fetish.!!!But I'am sure paying for it....
04-21-2005 Over year old.
 
 
doorman
Elite Veteran
Location: E.Berne, NY

Fuslage Base

Hi scotc,

After my intial tests with this unit last Saturday and Sunday, I had already considered this as a very stable plaform for use in a fuselage....
(and in my gallery, you can see that is what I like to fly!!)
I even mentioned this in a letter that I wrote to the supplier about my findings on this kit...along with some other thoughts... it never hurts to give constructive feedback!!! "It is nice to hear the response"
It offers excellent power to weight and the front tray configuration is excellent in the fact that it will give you a lot of extra room at the front since the servos are installed in the side frames.... and with no swing arm to have to modify.... also the height of 9" +/- on the side frames should make a pretty easy selection ... in the 50 -60 sized fuselages that are available. One other thing noted is that you can split the tail boom case from one side which will also make that an easier step in the fit up.
This is a unit that I will recommend to any new flier, a flier that is looking to move into full on aerobatics, or to the builder looking for a scale platform. The price range makes it a great stepping stone....
This is the "new breed"....
My plan is to use this one as the test bed, and to add the upgrades for the 3D portion, even though that is not usually my flying style, so that I can get better at the basics, but then to put a second stock unit into a fuselage... sounds like the NEXT winter project has shown up!!!!
Hope this info will be useful to you....


If there is a cure for this, please don't tell me about it!!!
04-21-2005 Over year old.
 
 
doorman
Elite Veteran
Location: E.Berne, NY

Head Hitting

Hi jvanscoyk

I saw that you had to mod the schroud for the head on the Hyper to clear... mine was fine.... I was just wondering if anyone else had to make the same mod that you did????
Nice flier isn't it???

If there is a cure for this, please don't tell me about it!!!
04-22-2005 Over year old.
 
 
spooky007
Senior Heliman
Location: Bakersfield, Ca

No mod here for the Hyper. Still breaking this motor in. The heli is very smooth in hover and FFF. I really like mine.

Al Drake
04-22-2005 Over year old.
 
 
doorman
Elite Veteran
Location: E.Berne, NY

Sounds Like Someone Is Listening!!!

From an email just received from the distributor:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: Audacity Models announce news of 3D Spindle Kit - 6mm diameter, part number AH-0516 which is presently being manufactured. We have
been test flying preproduction prototypes and are very satisfied with performance and thus have authorized manufacture and are expecting stateside delivery on, or about, May 10th. With this 6mm spindle, both ham-handed and aggressive 3D pilots can thrash the Tiger 50 to their heart's content and not worry about bending spindles in flight!
-----

Not bad... a mod avaialble in two days after a post!!!!!

If there is a cure for this, please don't tell me about it!!!
04-22-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Billy Zimmerman
Key Veteran
Location: Rainier Oregon

Will be adding one to mine

Raptor 90 SE YS91,Tiger50 OS50 Hyper, Vblades, OS&YS engines, Hitec Eclipse7
04-22-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
doorman
Elite Veteran
Location: E.Berne, NY

Upgrades For the Tiger 50

This notice just received from the distributor:

Audacity's business is to satisfy our customers. We have acted rapidly to satisfy that fraction of pilots ham-handed enough to bend spindles in flight by offering a bigger spindle.

Option part number AH-0516, 3D Spindle Kit (6mm diameter)

A 6mm spindle is not for most folks because more expensive parts begin breaking instead (while spindles survive). Kind of defeats the purpose, eh? Like a Volvo has crush zones to protect occupants in a crash, other well designed machinery also use the concept of sacrificial parts - in this case defined as - those designed to protect other components (since people don't ride around in them). Being a sacrificial part, spindles bend . . . thereby reserving other (usually more expensive) parts. Spindles, of course, are quite inexpensive and easy to replace.

Options, on the other hand, are parts designed to aid customers in their quest to optimize to their personal preferences, i.e. customize or personalize. Options are not free and to think otherwise is to basically misunderstand the function of capitalism. Otherwise, by adding in the cost of options (and of course passing it on to everybody) we would thereby, in effect, need to be raising prices. A famous writer coined a phrase that aptly applies. It is TANSTAAFL - "There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

Remember, the very point of a Tiger (for many) is to be able to laughingly call after a crash whilst overjoyed to be spending 60 bucks for parts instead of $250! Options keep prices lowest . . . or we would all fly a Tempest!

Kindest regards,

John Beech - GM
Genesis Hobby Distributors
http://www.genesishobby.com
407-302-3361

If there is a cure for this, please don't tell me about it!!!
04-22-2005 Over year old.
 
 
jbeech
rrAdvertiser
Location: Sanford, FL (Orlando area)

Chongolnee, a Senior Heliman from Chicago recently posted the following (with reference to the Tiger 50 helicopter):

"This is a good heli for beginer but not for hard 3D. I set up for Daved Gutierrez and the spindle will bend in flight on every flight!"

Following a question about dampers by Billy Zimmerman, he replied:

"we use a red damp. from raptor and cut them to fit . pirro flip take off,snake ect.. you name it he did it. It for sale now just look under for sale. Don't get me wrong .It's a good heli for befinner to mild 3D but not hard 3D"


Dear Chongolnee,

Bending spindles in a Tiger 50 after using cut-down red Raptor dampers . . . and then going on to say the Tiger is for sale - well, duh! Is it just me, or does it take a genious to know that bending spindles with dampers which are too hard is actually pretty easy to do? Placing the blame on the Tiger wasn't fair!

The big question is, if you wanted harder damping, why didn't you use the urethane dampers Audacity offer as an option? They are, after all, specifically designed for the Tiger!

Meanwhile, I presume there was no agenda on your part (to account for the lack of objectivity) and it was thus, simply a lack of experience in interpreting experimental data which led you to your conclusion. And by the way, there's nothing wrong with experimenting . . . what's more, I applaud you for the courage to undertake the experiment (largely because seemingly few modelers these days undertake these tasks anymore, you are a rare individual). I know because I too have experimented with various dampers (while working with the engineers to develop what ultimately became a part number we offer). Anyway, I learned it wasn't that dfficult to bend spindes when the dampers were too hard. I'm sure RR readers know damper hardness is a compromise and there actually are many factors to take into account when working to satisfy customers. But then, that's why options exist in the first place!

Anyway, things started to smell when you blamed the Tiger for the failure of the experiment instead of seeking other damping solutions, or wondering about the validity of your conclusions. I really think that was a disservice to RR readers, Audacity Models, and the Tiger 50!

Please consider trying the 3D dampers specifically designed for the Tiger 50 helicopter and to see if your views change.

John Beech
04-23-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Billy Zimmerman
Key Veteran
Location: Rainier Oregon

Chongolnee- PM me for more information on the harder dampers, I can PM you a link to the dampers. Billy

Raptor 90 SE YS91,Tiger50 OS50 Hyper, Vblades, OS&YS engines, Hitec Eclipse7
04-23-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Daved Gutierrez
Senior Heliman
Location: Chicago IL

I just wanted to let you guys know that both Chongolnee, myself and other club members are impressed with how good this heli performs,
I think this is a grate entre level helicopter and that with a few upgrades it could be the very best 50 size 3D heli out there! by the way i also fly the Evo 50 and it only ttakes a few flights to bend the spindle too.
04-23-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Raffy
Key Veteran
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Chongolnee and Daved Gutierrez are a team that test a heli with good equipments and accurate setups to fly the machine for extreme 3D.
I witnessed them putting the Tiger50 to the test 2 weeks ago and in the hands of Daved that machine is an awesome flying machine. Unfortunately, these tests are being performed privately to their satisfaction. In fact, this is the first time anyone in our flying circle have seen this machine perform extreme 3D.
A little short of their expectations, of course they need to move on. On the other hand, a manufacturer support with these guys might do this machine a great deal.
04-23-2005 Over year old.
 
 
jbeech
rrAdvertiser
Location: Sanford, FL (Orlando area)

Mr. Gutierrez,

There is a 6mm spindle option in the works. It was authorized a few days ago for manufacture. It's designed for aggressive pilots.

Folks, if a heli is released for expert 3D pilots only, it's a handful for beginners and intermediate pilots and that limits the market for the machine. So what is a manufacturer to do? The solution lies in a combination of adjustability and option parts.

Machines like Miniature Aircraft's gorgeous Tempest feature easy Bell-Hiller adjustments . . . and guess what? So does the Tiger 50. The Tiger's Bell-Hiller ratio can be varied between the stock 1:1 ratio (which is perfect for smooth flight performance) and a 3D-friendly 0.7:1 ratio. Making the change is simply a matter of unscrewing the bolt which secures the seesaw arms and then moving it over to the inner hole. No fuss, no muss, and no extra parts required!

Similarly, there are adjustments for direct Bell input (the output from the inner star of the swashplate). The parts are included, i.e. free. If more throw is desired, then there are optional bits available.

Stock dampers are perfect for intermediate pilots. As you discovered and tried to resolve, they have limitations when pushed for 3D. Hence, for 3D performance, urethane dampers are also available. But while these are perfect for 3D pilots, intermediates likely won't care for them.

Of course, none of this addresses the effects of different lengths of flybar, weights, as well as air-foils selections of paddles (and blades too)! Experienced modelers know the flybar serves to stabilize a model - kind of like a damper (via the appliction of aerodynamic loads) making the Bell-Hiller ratio adjustable is a step in making the machine tuneableto your desires. That's also the reason going to lighter paddles lets the heli perfom quicker maneuvers. By the way, had you registered your Tiger you would have been able to get the free 3D paddles and flybar! Anyway, these are all variables which need experimenting with to sort things to your tastes.

In short, there are many, many places to adjust any helicopter in order to make it suit individual preferences - unsurprisingly, the same things work for all helicopters! Hence, while I cannot speak for the Raptor 50 (largely because I don't even know if you "can" adjust the Bell-Hiller ratios of the Raptor 50), I am able to specifically speak about the Tiger because I do know what to do to help optimize it for your use.

Anyway, to the best of our knowledge, you have not purchased urethane dampers, a 3D swashball kit, or ever asked us for assistance. We can help you spice up the Tiger - it's easy, just give us a call. While we're here to serve you, we're not accomplished mind readers! So you gotta let us know what you want to do so that maybe we can help.

Finally, pilots like yourself and Chongolnee are precisely the kinds of pilots who help us improve the Tiger (by pushing the envelope). You may be pleasantly surprised to see just how far things can go when the owner of the company is an avid (and available) helicopter enthusiast like yourselves. Please don't be too hasty in categorizing the Tiger, because as compared to the somewhat long in tooth Raptor, it's pretty early in the game for Tiger.

John
04-23-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Daved Gutierrez
Senior Heliman
Location: Chicago IL

John i just want to let you know that i'm going to order those parts soon:
urethane dampers, a 3D swashball kit and the 3D seesaw and i mention that the tiger was an entry level heli, because of it's very good price, you pay very little for what you get, that's what i ment. and thanks for the suggestions.
04-23-2005 Over year old.
 
 
jbeech
rrAdvertiser
Location: Sanford, FL (Orlando area)

Mr. Gutierrez,

With a handle like Hovering Master, I'm kind of surprised you've said nothing about how sweet the Tiger is in the hover. While I'd put Tiger against all comers in that category, because of my business relationship with Audacity, some will think anything I say is suspect. So what say you Hover Master? How does Tiger stack up against say, a Raptor?

After all, you're not my paid shill . . . you reached into your own pocket to buy your Tiger (virtually before anyone else in America in fact since you're an early adopter). And I presume you bought it from Cindy at Al's Hobby Shop since you're in Chicagoland. What do you say about the overall handling and flying qualities of the Tiger 50?

What's more, would you share your comments vis-a-vis how well she tracks across the sky if say - you just let go of cyclic while in forward flight? Does she squat or dive? While it puts me in mind of that old-time phrase "tracks like a pattern plane", I have a vested interest in the matter, so what do you say?

Folks, the buck stops with me when it came to deciding what the mix of handling characteristcs an out of the box Tiger would have. I'm the guy to blame, or praise. I could have opted for a more 3D oriented machine (that's not very hard to do). Instead I decided to make those optional 3D bits available for those who want that kind of handling, but not make it the default setup. You see, I daresay most RR readers are more like me because when it comes to flying, I'm something of a duffer!

In fact, I still love it when I get home with an unbroken helicopter! Sure, I'm hoping to get better at 3D, but frankly, I still breath deep after a successful auto. For that matter, I sometimes shout out "Yes!" when I string two rolls together (and sometimes just one really nice one). And I'm definitely not an expert 3D guy yet (though I try my hand at it).

I spec-ed the Tiger to satisfy guys like me. To tell the truth, the Tiger is the kind of helicopter which makes me look good (maybe better than I am) largely because of how easy she hovers and flies (and also because I think a smooth machine beats flippy floppy any which way from Sunday)! Heck, I derive tremendous satisfaction by properly executing a coventional landing approach. Do you know the one? It's where you fly at a field composed of mainly fixed wing modelers and you must depart and approach the runway using the conventional landing pattern - or you're not welcome - rather than hogging the center of the runway. Trust me, I don't think anything beats a scale approach complete with a slow turn to nose-in, followed by a constant altitude hover taxi on by - just like a full scale heli at the FBO.

Anyway, that said, a few tweaks and some very inexpensive options later, and guys for whom 3D is a way of life can dial in their Tiger to whatever level of adrenaline they desire. And the parts are cheap! Did I mention the parts are cheap (and plentiful). In the store prices (not mail order) are really cheap! Booms for 9 bucks, hollow mainshafts for $8, I'm talking about the stuff that breaks on all helicopters!

Believe me, cheap parts are important to everybody, but they're especially important to guys practicing funnels, tick-tocks, and snakes lower to the ground than might be prudent (though nothing opens the adrenals more than low and lower, eh?). In fact, I'll tell you what's best for us, it's when a 3D maven calls to order parts on Monday and he's laughing his tail off because instead of spending 280 bucks following a botched Chaos at 6 feet, he's only spending $60. And he's still laughing because the full blown wounded chicken following the arrival had everybody at the field in awe (airplane guys are easily entertained)!

Frankly, flying the Tiger is almost better than sex. OK, I'm lying about that, but I do think the Tiger flies a lot like a good XCell 60 Custom. But that's what I think, what do you think? Put it on the line before God and Country, tell the world, I'm confident. How will guys at skill levels like mine think the Tiger flies . . . as compared to other machines. Your words, not mine.

Folks, I can tell you is this . . . getting down to 300 bucks (for an ARF no less) meant watching pennies. But because I'm a modeler (and the boss), we didn't cheap out by leaving off things like rubber grommets for mounting the fuel tank, or by using a plastic headblock (Tiger 50 has a CNC aluminum head block), plus there are some nifty touches too - like molded in clips for routing servo wires, and even rubber grommets for soft-mounting the radio switch (what caused your last radio-related crash?).

And if you don't mind Mr. Gutierrez, would you mind commenting on how nice the Tiger is to pull maintenance on? For example, did you notice you can swap tail output shafts without pulling the boom - or the tail belt - by just pulling three screws on the tail case?

Speaking of which, while the 3D guys like how easy it is to swap parts out after a crash on the Tiger, that latter point is important to scale guys too. Not just because scale guys notice how unbolting the radio platform leaves plenty of space to detail out a cockpit (since the radio platform is only for pod and boom you can leave it off), but because of how nice it is to slip an assembled tailboom - complete with belt - all ready to just install an output shaft and button up. It's nice to be versatile too.

Comments? Anybody who has flown a Tiger - who has also flown Raptor, Raven, Fury, Millennium, or Sceadu . . . feel free to chime in!

That's my 2¢

John
04-24-2005 Over year old.
 
 
vanguard
Heliman
Location: Indiana

John,
I have both a Raptor and a Tiger. The first thing I noticed was how easy the Tiger was to set up. All the links were set to the right measurments and when assembled yielded a 0 degree mid stick and +11 - 11 pitch range. All I had to do was be sure the servo arms were the correct length and at 90 degrees. On the Raptor the best I was able to get was plus or minus 9.5 degrees. Like you I am very much in the learning stages with the helis. In hover both helis are stable but in forward flight the Tiger wins hands down. No pitching at all. Like you stated it tracks very well. I have been able to do loops, rolls, inverted flight, inverted hover, pirouettes, stall turns, and funnels with the Raptor before I purchased the Tiger. With the Tiger I have added tic tocs and flips to this. The Tiger rolls much smoother and faster than the Raptor. Keep in mind that both helis were set up by me, for me, as a somewhat intermediate pilot. So the comparisons should be accurate. Same thumbs doing the same things with both helis. By the way, I have not bent a spindle on the Raptor or the Tiger, while in flight. I have bent one on both while getting too close to the ground.
Which brings me to another point, repairs on the Tiger have cost me about 70% as much as they do on the Raptor. If it sounds like I am happy with the Tiger, I am! Also happy with the service I receive from Audacity. Keep up the good work.
Mike
04-24-2005 Over year old.
 
 
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Audacity Models Pantera 50 - Tiger 50 > Test Flights Tiger 50
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