RunRyder - TX/RX eCCPM Latency Test Results

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Radio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt > TX/RX eCCPM Latency Test Results

JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: Town of California in the state of Maryland

> May be it would be interesting to test eccpm latency of TM14+R608...

I would love to. The 608 was not available when I did the other TM14 testing. If the 608 uses multi mode (which I believe it does), then one bad thing is that a given channel will only be updated every two out of three frames.

- John

Protos -- Logo 14 -- Logo 10

04-15-2008 06:09 PM

tgo
Senior Heliman
Location: HK

Yes, the 608 uses Multi mode !

04-16-2008 02:21 AM

tgo
Senior Heliman
Location: HK

Hi JKOS,
When you test the JR12X, is the servo sync just apply to 1,2&6 only ?

Thanks

05-01-2008 04:29 PM

JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: Town of California in the state of Maryland

ServoSync applies to various groups of channels depending on what you are using the radio for. For helis we care about 1, 2, and 6 since those are the three channels used for CCPM swashes.

- John

Protos -- Logo 14 -- Logo 10

05-02-2008 03:05 AM

tgo
Senior Heliman
Location: HK

As the 12X also has plane programs, how about big planes with multi flaps and ailreons?

Quote
ServoSync applies to various groups of channels depending on what you are using the radio for. For helis we care about 1, 2, and 6 since those are the three channels used for CCPM swashes.

05-02-2008 06:18 AM

Chuckie
Key Veteran
Location: Crofton Maryland, MHA member

Quote
If the 608 uses multi mode (which I believe it does), then one bad thing is that a given channel will only be updated every two out of three frames.

Why is this John?

Charles

Please stand by for faster service!

05-05-2008 04:54 PM

hootowl
Elite Veteran
Location: Garnet Valley, Pa.

Quote
For helis we care about 1, 2, and 6 since those are the three channels used for CCPM swashes.

Futaba FASST changes that to 1,2,3. It's radio dependent not heli dependent.

Give man fish and he will eat for a day. Teach man how to fish, he will sit in a boat &drink beer

05-05-2008 05:08 PM

HOMEPAGE

JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: Town of California in the state of Maryland

tgo,
> As the 12X also has plane programs, how about big planes with multi
> flaps and ailreons?

I'm not very familiar with large plane servo layout or programming. But, all 12 channels are 2048, all 12 channels are updated every single frame, and the radio has built in programming for servo matching; so, it really should work just fine. After all, that's the number one market for this radio.

hoot,
> Futaba FASST changes that to 1,2,3. It's radio dependent not heli
> dependent.

tgo was referring specifically to the 12X. FASST doesn't change it to 1, 2, and 3 on all radios so your second statement is by all means correct.

Chuckie,
That's just the way Futaba choose to do it.

- John

Protos -- Logo 14 -- Logo 10

05-05-2008 05:30 PM

tgo
Senior Heliman
Location: HK

Hi John,
I understand that 12X has all channels updated in one single frame, but can you help to clarify this...

DX7 has servo sync on 1,2,6 only, how about 12x ? all 12 channels syncs and output at one time?

Thanks

05-06-2008 03:44 AM

JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: Town of California in the state of Maryland

tgo,
One page back in a post I made at 04:50 PM on 03-25-2008 shows the channel output scheme. Now this is in heli mode. Is it different for plane mode? I don't know.

> DX7 has servo sync on 1,2,6 only ... output at one time?

The DX7 has servo sync on more than just 1, 2, and 6. If you really look at the output scheme, it covers more than just heli setups. ServoSync does not imply simultaneous output. It really just means either simultaneous or next to each other as well as implying that all applicable channels get updated each frame (but updating all channels every frame is true for Spektrum in general).

- John

Protos -- Logo 14 -- Logo 10

05-06-2008 04:44 AM

Chuckie
Key Veteran
Location: Crofton Maryland, MHA member

I mean technically what is going on? Does it have to do with 14ch vs 8 ch conversion, because the 14mz has to process all 14 channels a lot of aux data is sent to keep the same total timing?

I just purchased the R608 but have not flown it yet. Should I have just purchased the 14ch instead? I should be able to exchange it at my LHS.

Charles

Please stand by for faster service!

05-06-2008 08:07 PM

AirWolfRC
Elite Veteran
Location: 42½ N, 83½ W

JKos, here's another one for you,
http://www.acteurope.de/Vergleichenglisch.pdf

05-09-2008 04:10 PM

HOMEPAGE

Eco8gator
Key Veteran
Location: Palm Beach Gardens, FL

Now thats what Ive been looking for!

C

05-09-2008 05:40 PM

rexxigpilot
Senior Heliman
Location: florida

Wow, that S3D stuff looks atrocious. What's with the twin antennae on the transmitter that look like ears? In Florida and California it would be called "Mickey Mouse."

05-09-2008 05:47 PM

lazy-b
Heliman
Location: Manila, Philippines

Jkos,

After reading all your actual Test, I just realize that my Futaba 9CHP is a way too slow......a 83.5 msec thats almost 100 msec or 1/10 of a seconds.......been thinking purchasing a DX7.

I plan to Convert my Futaba 9CHP to allowed using Spektrum Receiver by Purchasing a Spectrum Transmitter Module for Futaba.

I just wonder what is its effective Latency time?

Base on your published data:
Futaba 9CHP PCM in eCCPM LATENCY is 83.5 msec.
Futaba 9CHP PPM in eCCPM LATENCY is 64.9 msec.
Futaba 9CHP PPM in Normal Latency is 45.65 msec.

I am just guessing, if I use a Spectrum Modules the effective Latency should be somewhere:

Between 64.9 to 83.5 msec. in eCCPM
Between 45.65 to 65.65 msec. in Normal

Spektrum claimed that their convertion still faster than the PCM.

Hope you can gave the actual test.

Thanks.

Ellion Cham

05-15-2008 01:45 PM

RCHelicopterGuy
Veteran
Location: Michigan

I normally wouldn't make a post like this, but since I know that people who read this thread are more likely to appreciate certain features and radios, I just wanted to mention that I have an ad in the classified forum for a Stylus radio system w/ two Rx's and accessories.

If this is bad form to mention it, I apologize, and feel free to request to Mark that the post be deleted.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

05-18-2008 09:53 PM

lazy-b
Heliman
Location: Manila, Philippines

Guys, I guess, its really hard to image the Latency time....maybe its better to convert in Stick/Servo update rate....by getting the reciprocal of the Latency time, this will give us the Stick/Servo Sampling rate per seconds.

Now, I guess, its easier to explain to a Ordinary Non-Techinal People.

Futaba 9CHP PCM in eCCPM LATENCY is 83.5 msec.....11.97 per second
Futaba 9CHP PPM in eCCPM LATENCY is 64.9 msec.....15.40 per second
Futaba 9CHP PPM in Normal Latency is 45.65 msec...21.90 per second

I thinks its now easier to digest the above data.

using a PCM/CCPM can give me only 12 servo update per second......
May be I better start using a regular FM receiver this give me 22 servo update per second

Jko, Maybe you can add another Column of you Table. its the reciprocal of the Latency periods. This will give a Stick/Servo Update Rate.......its easier to understand by saying my Futaba 9CHP can make a 12 Stick/Servo Update per second, than saying it has a Latency time of 83.5 msec......I guess some people do not even understand a millisecond......this is just a suggestion.

05-19-2008 10:06 AM

lazy-b
Heliman
Location: Manila, Philippines

I copy John's Data to Spreadsheet and add new column to give a Stick/Servo Update rate:

I will add each result to following table as I get them.
Code

DSM, DSM2, FASST, XPS in eCCPM mode
| stick/servo
Transmitter |Receiver|MLF|MLL|MaxLF|MaxLL|Avg Latency refresh rate
---------------+--------+---+---+-----+-----+-----
Futaba 12Z/TM14|R6014FS |19 | 19| 57.8| 57.8| 38.4 | 38.40 | 26.04
Futaba 14MZ/DM8|AR9000 |20 | 23| 74 | 76 | 47 (4) | 47.00 | 21.28
Futaba T6EX |R606FS | 8 | 15| 54 | 60 | 34.25 (5) | 34.25 | 29.20
Futaba T7C 2.4 |R617FS |11 | 13| 39 | 41 | 26.4 | 26.40 | 37.88
JR 12X |R1221 |20 | 21| 43.5| 45.5| 32.5 | 32.50 | 30.77
JR 9303/Spektru|AR9000 |40 | 45| 63.8| 68.3| 54.4 | 54.40 | 18.38
JR 9303/XPS Tol|XPS 8-ch|34 | 52| 74 | 81 | 60 (7) | 60.00 | 16.67
JR 9303/XPS Now|XPS 8-ch|33 | 33| 61.7| 61.7| 46.9 (8) | 46.90 | 21.32
JR X9303 |AR7000 |24 | 26| 45.5| 49.5| 36.2 | 36.20 | 27.62
JR X9303 |R921 |24 | 26| 45.5| 49.5| 36.7 | 36.70 | 27.25
Spektrum DX6 |AR6000 |59 | 63| 80.6| 88.6| 72.8 | 72.80 | 13.74
Spektrum DX6i |AR7000 |23 | 25| 47.6| 49.6| 35.74 | 35.74 | 27.98
Spektrum DX7 |AR7000 |14 | 16| 36 | 40 | 27.5 | 27.50 | 36.36
Spektrum DX7 |AR6100 |14 | 16| 36 | 40 | 27.5 | 27.50 | 36.36
Spektrum DX7 |AR6000 |31 | 35| 53 | 61 | 45 | 45.00 | 22.22
|
|
PCM in eCCPM Mode
|
Transmitter |Receiver|MLF|MLL|MaxLF|MaxLL|Avg
---------------+--------+---+---+-----+-----+-----
ATX Stylus |92186Z |13 | 16| 27 | 30 | 21.5 | 21.50 | 46.51
Futaba 12Z |R5014DPS|14 | 14| 31.5| 31.5| 22.75 (1) | 22.75 | 43.96
Futaba 12Z Md A|R5114DPS|11 | 11| 29.5| 29.5| 20.3 (1) | 20.30 | 49.26
Futaba 12Z Md B|R5114DPS|15 | 15| 37.6| 37.6| 26.1 (1) | 26.10 | 38.31
Futaba 14MZ |R5014DPS|14 | 14| 31.5| 31.5| 22.75 (1) | 22.75 | 43.96
Futaba 14MZ |R5014DPS|14 | 24| 31.5| 41.5| 27.75 (2) | 27.75 | 36.04
Futaba 14MZ |PCM1024 |29 | 93| 42 |106 | 67.5 (3) | 67.50 | 14.81
Futaba 9C |R149DP |44 |110| 57 |123 | 83.5 | 83.50 | 11.98
Futaba 9ZWC2 |R149DP |29 | 93| 41.9|105.9| 67.5 | 67.50 | 14.81
Hitec Eclipse7 |QPCM |41 | 43| 62 | 64 | 52.5 | 52.50 | 19.05
JR 8103 |649S |27 | 59| 47 | 59 | 48 | 48.00 | 20.83
JR 9303 |649S |15 | 47| 36 | 47 | 36.3 | 36.30 | 27.55
JR 9303 |770S |15 | 47| 36 | 47 | 36.3 | 36.30 | 27.55
JR 10X |649S |34 | 66| 54 | 66 | 55 | 55.00 | 18.18
|
|
PPM and eCCPM
|
Transmitter |Receiver|MLF|MLL|MaxLF|MaxLL|Avg
--------------+--------+---+---+-----+-----+-----
ATX Stylus |FM |13 | 17| 37 | 45 | 28 | 28.00 | 35.71
Futaba 9C |FM |50 | 55| 72.3| 82.3| 64.9 | 64.90 | 15.41
Futaba 14MZ |PPM8 | 4 | 6| 39 | 41 | 22.5 (1) | 22.50 | 44.44
Hitec Eclipse7|FM |22 | 28| 42.6| 50.5| 35.8 | 35.80 | 27.93
JR 8103 |FM |10 | 14| 32 | 40 | 24 | 24.00 | 41.67
JR 9303 |FM |10 | 14| 32 | 40 | 24 | 24.00 | 41.67
JR 10X |FM |10 | 14| 32 | 40 | 24 | 24.00 | 41.67
Multiplex Evo9|FM |10 | 14| 32 | 40 | 24 (6) | 24.00 | 41.67
|
|
PCM, DSM2, and FASST in Normal mode (Channel 6)
|
Transmitter |Receiver|MLF|MLL|MaxLF|MaxLL|Avg
--------------+--------+---+---+-----+-----+-----
ATX Stylus |92186Z |13 | 13| 27 | 27 | 20 | 20.00 | 50.00
Futaba T6EX |R606FS |17 | 17| 61 | 61 | 39 | 39.00 | 25.64
JR 8103 |649S |38 | 38| 58 | 58 | 53 | 53.00 | 18.87
JR 10X |649S |35 | 35| 55 | 55 | 50 | 50.00 | 20.00
JR X9303 |R921 |25 | 25| 47 | 47 | 36 | 36.00 | 27.78
|
|
PPM and Normal (Channel 6)
|
Transmitter |Receiver|MLF|MLL|MaxLF|MaxLL|Avg
--------------+--------+---+---+-----+-----+-----
Futaba 9C |PPM |32 | 32| 59.3| 59.3| 45.65 | 45.65 | 21.91
Futaba 14MZ |PPM8 | 3 | 3| 40 | 40 | 21.3 | 21.30 | 46.95
JR 8103 |PPM |16 | 16| 38 | 38 | 27 | 27.00 | 37.04
JR 10X |PPM | 8 | 8| 30 | 30 | 19 | 19.00 | 52.63
|
All times are in milliseconds.
MLF - Minimum latency to first change at receivers output
MLL - Minimum latency to last change at receivers output
MaxLF - Maximum latency to first change at receivers output
MaxLL - Maximum latency to last change at receivers output
Avg - Average of MLF, MLL, MaxLF, and MaxLL
|
(1) Using channels 4, 5, and 6
(2) Using channels 1, 2, and 6
(3) Deduced numbers from observed behavior
(4) Channels 4, 5, and 6 on 14MZ and channels 2, 5, and 6 on AR9000
(5) Subject to collective input slew rate limiting
(6) In PPM 8, JR channel assignments, HELIccpm model and NOT an IPD receiver
(7) Units sold in Toledo
(8) Current tx module firmware v2.3 and rx firmware v2.4

05-20-2008 06:59 AM

JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: Town of California in the state of Maryland

lazy-b,
I would not agree with comparing the latency numbers to refresh rates. The latency is a delay not a rate. The refresh rate is the frame rate, half the frame rate, or 2/3 the frame rate depending on which system.

- John

Protos -- Logo 14 -- Logo 10

05-21-2008 01:47 AM

lazy-b
Heliman
Location: Manila, Philippines

John, Yes, I agree with you....Maybe my Terms is not right....its just like in terms of Sinewave wave form, we use Periods to measure in Times in (second, micro, milli,nano).... sometimes its easier to use Frequency (its no. of cycle in a second)......to convert back to period just need to make 1/freq.

for example my Futaba has a latency of 83.5 millisec, it frequency that 1/83.5 millisec = 12 CPS , Convert 12 CPS to period thats 1/12 sec.

its easier to read 1/12 sec than using 83.5 millisec....Both are the same no.

What can you suggest the Reciprocal of Latency ? cause when I converted the Latency Period into rate, now I can really see how much it can update within a second time.

say my Futaba 9CHP has 83.5 msec , that about 12 update in a second
a SPektrum DX7 has 27.5 msec, thats about 36 update in a second

Anyway, if you taking about a delay a time unit would be more appropriate than using a frequency.

Have you measure the Actual Latency of Futaba 9CHP with Specktrum Module?

base on your data
JR 9303 / Specktrum module / eccpm = 54.4 millisec
JR 9303 / PPM / eCCPM = 41.67 millisec
Specktru module must be cause = 54.4 - 41.67 = 12.73 millisec

so if I use Futaba with specktrum module this would be
Futaba PPM/eCCPM 64.90 + Specktrum Module 12.73 = 77.63 millisec.

this is still faster than Futaba 9C/PCM/eCCPM of 83.5 millisec.

If the Delay time is constant, I guess, a Good Pilot can easily make a compensation.

Thanks for your comment.

Ellion

05-21-2008 06:30 AM

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Radio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt > TX/RX eCCPM Latency Test Results

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