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Model Rectifier Corp . RCHover . RC-Direct

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e-Electric General Discussion > DragonFly 4CH RTF Helicopter
 
 
dragon_not_fly
Heliman
Location: US

This topic is for all newbie micro electric r/c helicopter pilots particulary those who bought the DragonFly 4 CH RTF helicopter from: http://www.gowhere.com.hk/ and the triumphs/struggles that I have faced to learn to fly it. I hope this helps anyone else who may be in the same situation and may be this topic can be a knowledge base for such a r/c helicopter.

[Intro]
NEVER flew r/c helicopters before in my life, however, when I was a teen I use to fly a 4 CH glow fueled r/c plane. I always wanted one though, they were just too hard, too much money at the time. About 2.5 months ago I got spam in my e-mail box about the Megatech Helichopper and was very interested in it. Before long, I was browsing the net and viewing guys fly fixed pitch helis in their houses landing on kitchen tables etc...and so forth. I was hooked, I bought the DragonFly 4 CH RTF helicopter from http://www.gowhere.com.hk/ and it arrived in 2-3 days! I initially was afraid of it when I ran the motor up to 50% throttle position with the heli locked down on its skids in my garage. I was suprised a bit about: how much air it threw around, how noisy it was(gear clatter) and how much lift it was generating! After the battery ran down, I was thinking to myself, what did I get myself in to, am I going to fly this thing???!!!

[Initial hops]
After two days of sliding it around on my garage floor, AFTER I bought training gear, which did not come with the kit, I pushed the throttle up to 40% position(which at the time was very reckless) and popped it off the floor, the nose turned left and it drifted back to me, it got about 12-16"" off of the ground and then I KILLED the throttle. After doing this a few times, I noticed that I was basically slamming it onto the concrete floor. I then took a large blanket and spread it across my garage floor so that when I KILLED the throttle it would come down on a softer surface. I did this for about 2 days....then came setup/trim.

[Initial setup/trim]
I SCOURED the Internet for info on how to setup/trim a micro heli with fixed pitch and after some of my own experimenting determined these few CRITICAL things:
the torque tightness of the main rotor blades; that is, the the two screws that hold the left and right blades into the rotor head must be screwed in with the same amount of force while either the main rotor blades were PERPENDICULAR to the flybar or each of the blades were OFFSET at the SAME ANGLE relative to the flybar. The fomer mentioned was ABSOLUTELY critical in providing very stable flight with little or no vibration.

I noticed that my heli would not stay straight and level unless I had FULL right yaw trim coupled with one "click" away from FULL left roll cyclic trim. With the blades at the same tightness/angle and aforementioned trims the heli would fly straight. Newbies, you will only arrive at the correct trim when you bring the heli almost out of GE(Ground Effect) at eye level! I did all of this over that blanket in a 7 foot by 7 foot space with all kinds of obstacles/junk on all sides of the blanket(my garage is very tight).

[Initial trimmed out flights]
I noticed something ABSOLUTELY CRAZY/DISTURBING/INSANE about how r/c helicopters fly.......that something is what I call the "penduluum effect" or glass ball on a sheet of glass. Basically the helicopter is totally unstable, it constantly requires small/fast inputs what I call SIQ(sick), Small Inputs Quick to keep the thing at one spot in the air. If you are either too slow on the sticks and/or over correct the helicopter, it goes into the "penduluum effect" all by itself with no further control inputs necessary; that is, it literally acts as if the helicopter was a marble and was going around in a glass bowl making bigger/faster circles until it flys out of the bowl or in the real circumstance, would fly out of the 7 foot by 7 foot space and into a garage wall. I couldn't believe on how difficult the thing was to fly!!! After sweating on the sticks I did the impossible(it wasn't picture perfect by any means) I hovered the helicopter in the 7 foot by 7 foot space for 7 minutes which completely ran the pack down after 1.5 weeks after I got the thing...

[Broken parts]
I must be completely lucky as I have done all of my flying in that 7 foot by 7 foot space and have not broken a single part, HOWEVER, I have gone through 2 tail motors! You will burn these out unfortunately with the stock all-in-one board and motor. I was so *issed off that these stupid things would burn out that when I was grounded with no spares I took both motors apart and noticed this: both motor's + brushes were vaporized at their ends such that they no longer made contact with the contact/spindle so that the motors would turn with a voltage applied to them. After being so annoyed at this I found scrap metal in my garage, cut a really thin strip of it, shaped/bent it as best as I could, soldered it back into place, put the motor back together again and sure it enough it spun up.......but then eventually it too burned out I have recently purchased the tail motor that goes to the Colco Thunderbird heli under the assumption that the Chinese who make it would have placed in more robust brushes in it since the STOCK Thunderbird comes with a main battery at 9.6 volts as opposed to my heli's 8.4 volts. I also bought the GWS ICS tail motor and GWS 4530 prop combo from like90.com to combat the tail motor burn out problem in which this has not been tested yet. The one thing I have noticed with the Colco Thunderbird tail motor is that it is SIGNIFICANTLY more powerful than the cheap/weak replacement tail motors that are "designed" for the DragonFly.

[Current flying]
I can now hover the DragonFly over a 2 foot by 2 foot fiber board heli pad that I purchased from Home Depot with little movement; that is, one spot over the board in GE for up to 45 seconds. I have gotten MUCH better at fighting the "penduluum effect" and can now hover smoothly, move forward and backward with ease, however, a new problem has arrisen....no power!!!! I can not seem to break out of GE even with FULLY charged batteries! I am doing some tests now as to why this new ANNOYING problem has come about which is keeping me from flying the machine effectively....

[Flight performance/electronics performance]
The machine is rather quick in forward flight and it does not take too much control inputs to roll left/right move forward/backward. It is very unstable/skittish and really takes alot of concentration to fly it. I noticed that it becomes more stable if I moved the battery compartment FULLY forward. The lousy NiMH batteries that come with the kit are a joke for a number of reasons, the main reason being this: the heli even with a FULLY charged 8.4 volt, 700 MAh battery drops back down into GE after only 5 minutes of flight and will basically only slide around the floor after 7 minutes of flight as it does not have enough volts to break ground. The batteries can only be charged as fast as 52 minutes with my Hobbico Mk II field charger. The stock battery charger that comes with the kit is a joke as it takes 1 hour 45 minutes to charge the battery(only one at a time) and it is not automatic.
As for flying the key to fixed pitch in my humble opinion is the.........THROTTLE!!!!!! You have to INCH MEAL the throttle as that is so critcial to lift/decreasing lift, you have to play the throttle always. For instance, if I want th e DragonFly to roll to the left, I give it a small amount of left roll cyclic AND a few "clicks" of throttle. If I don't give it a few "clicks" of throttle the helicopter will lose up to 3 feett of altitude!!! You might be thinking...so what, 3 feet of altitude, if you initiated the left turn at 5 foot off of the ground you are now 2 feet off of the ground going left fairly quickly in the thick of GE!! Newbies, GE or Ground Effect is where the helicopter is still being hit by the down airflow vortex(rotor wash) that is produced by the spinning rotor blades which is magnified because of the height of the helicopter above ground. The helicopter will be fully out of GE at about 8-10 feet above ground and will hover much more smoothly!

[More to come]
I hope I can fix the STUPID lack of power problem as I want to get back to flying! Since the time I have first bought the heli to this post it has been 7.5 weeks and it has been an interesting/exciting/fun/annoying/frustrating ride. Any more info I will give...as it has been said, "freely you have received, freely give" I am open source 100%. Newbies out there, read this post, you will encounter, more then likely, the same problems. I hope with the knowledge that I have gained thus far that I can continue and bring back to the community. I have alot to learn yet, please add knowledge to this post....knowledge is power and practice makes perfect!

Matt
01-30-2005 01:18 AM
 
 
jimmyrcer (passed) contact don-fry
Heliman
Location: new lebanon,ohio

dragonfly

yes i understand fully how much of a pain they are,kept having trim problems.must have broken every 2mm carbon fiber on this thing.thanks to dave at radical r/c a bought all he had in october 2004.fixed my trim problem with rc car parts and a little 1/8 wheel collar off my plane.have fixed 5 of these demon heli's.but we get them to fly now and we have a lot of fun and they do take some abuse
jim
01-31-2005 01:08 AM
 
 
dragon_not_fly
Heliman
Location: US

Chronicles of the DragonFly continued...(all-in-one...not one)

It has been interesting to say the least concerning my lack of power problem. I ordered the GWS ICS brushed tail motor/GWS ICS 4530 prop combo from like90.com and I must say that I am really impressed with like90.com and this motor. The GWS ICS tail motor is HUGE compared to the stock weak tail motors that are "made" for the DragonFly. It is also significantly heavier though... You can find the GWS ICS brushed(high authority) tail motor here: http://www.like90.com/index.asp?Pag...WPROD&ProdID=95 and no I do not represent like90.com nor am I getting paid by them, just relating my experiences with them so far. You might ask, have I flown this combo yet?.......nope! Here's why.

[All-in-one burn out]
After I placed my order with like90.com for the tail motor upgrade to try and fight the tail motor burn out problem I was flying/troubleshooting the lack of power problem, basically, the helicopter had no power and could not get out of ground effect. I measured currents/voltages leading out of the unit that were being sent to the main motor. Voltages were correct, currents were not. After running it on my desk, the all-in-one burst into flames after awhile with no warning; that is, an orange flame about 3 inches tall came out of the unit and an intense burnt wire/burning plastic smell filled my room! After the smoke cleared(literally) I measured the voltage from the lead that provides power to the main motor and noticed that it was at the battery's full voltage; that is, it was a steady 8.8 volts and had no proportional control, it was as if all of the battery's current was going right through the all-in-one to the motor...something not desirable. I took the all-in-one apart and noticed that one of the "chips" had over heated and burned out. I hooked all the wires back up and was suprised to see that everything still worked except the main motor's ESC, it was burned out. As a side project, I intend to find a replacement chip if possible and solder it back in place, since I know that will fix the problem. For now I am grounded and I have decided to go to "separates"....

[Separates]
Newbies, "separates" are just that, using separate electronic components for the main motor's ESC, tail motor's ESC/mixer, receiver and gyro as opposed to using the all-in-one circuit board that comes with the kit. I have to admit that the all-in-one circuit board that comes with the kit is really impressive in a few regards, mainly at just how small it is, how light it is and how much functionality is integrated into it, all of this however, comes at a price, that price being, lack of robustness. With my knowledge of electronics the "achilles heel" of the all-in-one circuit board in my opinion appears to be the ESC functionality used for controlling the main motor. It just does not appear to handle run away currents, spikes or heating that well at all. Here is what I bought from like90.com to get back up flying with separate electronic components.

[Separates prurchased]
QTY Description
1 GWS ICS 300 main motor ESC
1 GWS PG-03 non-heading hold gyro
1 GWS Pico 4 CH receiver/Futaba style connectors
1 Dionysus Designs TREC tail rotor motor speed control with mix kit/comm cable
1 GWS 4 CH transmitter with receiver crystal

I decided to buy the GWS 4 CH transmitter as it has the GWS receiver crystal and it uses FM type signalling, apparently the DragonFly's stock transmitter uses PCM signalling? Can anyone verify that? The advantage of having two transmitters is that I can use the stock/lousy/non-standard ZHEN HUA PCM-4CH with FMS(Flying Model Simulator) with all of the trims setup while using the GWS 4 CH transmitter for the real helicopter with all of its trims setup. Here is an EXCELLENT article on setting up or going to "separates": http://www.helihobby.com/html/separate_electronics.html
The above is a must read for guys like me going to "separates" for the first time...

Does anyone have the above(separate electronic components) or similar installed and working in the DragonFly? How do they work? Is it an improvement over the stock setup?(I am almost positive it would be).

[If you decide to buy the DragonFly]
In my opinion and I know that I could get flamed for this, but I believe if I could do it all over again, I would ONLY buy the helicopter with the motors already installed(the stock main motor appears to be good) and NO electronics! I would then go out and buy separate components, learn how to set them up, possibly, get someone to help me and then learn how to fly, again, someone hopefully there to help instead of having to learn all of this by myself. You could make the argument that by buying the stock DragonFly helicopter which is now retailing for as low as $91 bucks off of gowhere.com as a complete RTF kit, that you could in- expensively get a taste of what micro r/c electric helicopters are about and then decide if they are something that you want to pursue. If you buy the RTF kit to get a taste of what these micro helis are like, just don't be under the assumption that they will work perfectly or that the electronics won't burn out. If you are serious about this hobby you will know after using the stock RTF kit of just how many short comings it has and that it needs to be upgraded in more than a few areas to get the reliablity/performance that you would expect. In my opinion, the basic helicopter assembly(minus the electronics off course) is very sound and is quite strong and can really take a punishing, plus its major commonality with E-Sky's HoneyBee in which there is a huge number of spare parts available for this helicopter. The old adage is true as ever, you get what you pay for...


More updates to follow soon...
02-06-2005 12:49 AM
 
 
jknoell
Senior Heliman
Location:

Thanks a lot for your very valuable post. I've gotten a RTF dragonfly as a gift from my significant other, and your posts helped me a lot to avoid pitfalls. Just yesterday I burned out the tail motor - ordered two replacement motors, hope they'll get here soon.

I'm not sure, but I'd say there are easier ways to learn flying a heli than using a mini... the bigger ones seem to be one hell of a lot easier. His old, big gas heli was easy as pie to hover - but that was like 15 feet off the ground or so. He even allowed me to land it. I refused that honor though
I'm not sure if that's altitude or size, but it sure was A LOT easier.

Oh and just in case there's still someone out there reading this who hasn't figured that out yet: simulators are a gift from heaven, if used right. Meaning: Use the right helicopter - don't practice flying with a Raptor if you plan on flying a Dragonfly
02-06-2005 05:58 AM
 
 
Anton Yunus
Heliman
Location: Indonesia

Are you a fool ?
The dragon fly Helis is the very bad helicopter in this galaxy !
Normally that's can fly, if it can't contact your neariest GWS dealer


Anton
02-06-2005 11:01 AM
 
 
Stava
Heliman
Location:

Dragonfly Wont fly??????????

G'day to all,

Perhaps some of you should take a look at this video, may change your mind about the flying abilities of the "cheap" dragonfly!

cheers,

Stava


http://www.omp.com.au/videos/Dragonfly Hop-Up.wmv
02-11-2005 02:27 PM
 
 
Fenrich01
Heliman
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada

Im a new flyer and im just wondering if this is a good heli for a new flyer. I plan on using the simulater for a while first.
Aaron
03-03-2005 05:36 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Bru
Heliman
Location: Leicestershire, England

Hi Aaron

I would say the collective pitch version is, As it's quite stable considering it's a micro, Nice and cheap to buy and repare.
The Twister CP (UK's version) comes complete with TX & charger ....Everything !

Andy..
03-04-2005 08:54 PM
 
 
jknoell
Senior Heliman
Location:

Good for a first heli? Hmmm... yes and no, I think. I love that they're very hard to damage. I don't like that they are so extremely twitchy. I _can_ hover mine on a 3x3 foot square if there is no wind whatsoever. As soon as there is even a hint of wind it gets a little iffy. That's for a fixed pitch dragonfly. The only modification I made to mine is to switch to a 2100mAh LiPo for longer flight times.

From my point of view it all depends on your goals. I'll probably switch to an electric collective pitch heli in a bit, only because they seem to be a lot less sensitive to wind - with 8mph gusts it gets really iffy to fly my little CP. Possible, but iffy. Servos aren't fast enough for one thing, and speeding up/slowing down the motor to increase/decrease lift has some delay too. Fine for no wind conditions, horror for gusts.

They are very hard to learn hover on. Try the twitchiest model your sim has to offer. Hover it on the spot as close to the screen as you can (ONLY in the sim!). It's still one hell of a lot easier to hover like this in a sim than the real thing.

The tail motors are a little bit of a headache (not powerful enough, burn out too fast and so on). They are, however, cheap to repair.

You do get what you pay for with these little devillish devices. I still fight with my little dragonfly (unless there is no wind, then I hover the whole battery).
03-04-2005 09:40 PM
 
 
Fenrich01
Heliman
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada

Thank you

~Aaron~
03-04-2005 10:26 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
BonGeek
Heliman
Location:

Where is the Power Switch?

Hello!

I just got this baby today! btu i didn't find out where the power switch ?

I ordered it from HobbyTownJapan2000.com.

Take Care

BonGeek
03-19-2005 03:58 AM
 
 
jknoell
Senior Heliman
Location:

They don't have power switches. You turn on your transmitter, make sure the power is all the way down, then plug the birds battery in. When you're done flying unplug the dragonflys battery first, then turn off the transmitter.
03-19-2005 04:28 AM
 
 
BonGeek
Heliman
Location:

Thank u :D

Thanks Dude!

gonna play with it tomorrow! i was playing with my RC Boat (3000 NiMH upgraded) in Lake Anderson , Morgan Hill , CA (19 mins from South San Jose)

Loving the RC World!

Take Care,

BonGeek
03-19-2005 04:31 AM
 
 
BonGeek
Heliman
Location:

Which one is best for Beginners then?

Hello! Guys!

I am readin the other post, just came to know Dragon Fly 4CH is not good for novice! so wots the other option? Cheap (under 150) and good to learn the hovering, right and left turning n good in park!

Take Care,

BonGeek
03-19-2005 05:00 AM
 
 
jknoell
Senior Heliman
Location:

The best birds for beginners are slightly bigger helis, I think. The small ones are not just twitchy - they are also very sensitive to wind, even a slight breeze of 5mph or so will push it around quite a bit.

Unfortunately I don't know of any bigger RTF or even kit for less than $150.

You _can_ learn to fly with your dragonfly, it's just a lot harder than practicing with a bigger heli.

Here's how I learned:

I used a cheap simulator (FMS) with the twitchiest heli model I could find (BumbleBee) and practiced tail-in hovering in one spot. Once I got that down to being able to hover in a 3x3 foot square I practiced moving the heli around and hovering side-in and nose-in, as well as transitioning between these.

When I was comfy that I had the orientation right in the sim, I took my little bird outside and practiced with the real thing. There I made one mistake: I did not use kiddie skids (training gear). As a result I crashed a few times. That's also where I learned that grass is a bad thing, and wind is even worse

By now I can fly indoors without smashing into walls. The only problem for me now is that our cats leap for the heli and occasionally bat it out of the air... pfffff...

There's plenty of guides out there on how to properly practice flying, I'd recommend following them. Particularly the ones that describe how to properly use a sim help a lot I believe.
03-19-2005 08:09 PM
 
 
dragon_not_fly
Heliman
Location: US

Dragon do Fly!

Well, it has been a long time since my last post. I have been very busy and in the realm of my heli, have had nothing but problems with it, however, things have changed. First of all, I am interested in maintaining this thread; that is, this thread was/is/will be primarilarly focused upon the Walkera DragonFly Number 4. I have found a sister thread here: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/Wal..._2833333/tm.htm
There is a lot of great posts here and I want to contact them to see if we can combine are experiences to form a considerably more detailed and varied knowledge base about this micro electric heli and micro electric helis in general.
04-29-2005 01:48 AM
 
 
dragon_not_fly
Heliman
Location: US

The maker of this micro heli

There has been alot of discussion in the past about this helicopter and how cheap it was and how many problems people have had with it and the lack of support by the manufacturer and so on and so forth. In early March of this year I found(after alot of searching) the makers of this heli. The manufacturer is: Guangzhou Walkera Technology Co .Ltd and their official website is: http://www.walkera.com I could not believe that I had found them and was very surprised as to how many new knock-off helis they were releasing. The Number 4 had been supplanted by many new ones, take for example the Model Number 22D. This is basically a fixed pitch knock-off the MS Composit Hornet. Walkera has even released a version of the Honey Bee 2 CP based micro heli which they call the No. 40 Plane Model. After sifting through their site I was suprised on just how cheap, in a monetary sense, the replacement parts are for the Walkera No. 4 heli. Here is a link: http://www.walkera.com/home_e/hm4engish.htm For instance, at the time of this post, you can purchase a new cabin for $3.37 or a new tail rotor for $2.20. These tail rotors usually go for $6+ dollars as sold as a replacement part to the E-Sky HoneyBee. I was very happy and thought that if I could buy directly from them and avoid a middleman....hint hint(hobbyjapan2000), that I could save money on new/replacement parts. I was wrong, it looks like only distributors can buy from them. If any one finds this not to be true, please let me know. For the first time, we have gotten a glimpse of who it is that has actually designed/built this micro helicopter.
04-29-2005 02:00 AM
 
 
dragon_not_fly
Heliman
Location: US

Sims -- why they can help

Simulators are a very valuable tool, however, they are NEVER a full replacement for flying the real thing......trying to model reality precisely is almost impossible. I say this from my own personal experiences with the FMS simulator software and the Walkera No. 4 micro heli; that is, actually flying it. There is a simulator that is very impressive and quite expensive as well, that simulator being, reflex, located here: http://www.reflex-sim.dyndns.org/re...php?language=en
Simply put, I have personally seen the benefits of using a simulator, but have been unpleasantly surprised when trying to fly the Walkera in the real world. All of the simulator practice that I have is using the FMS or Flying Model Simulator located here: http://n.ethz.ch/student/mmoeller/fms/index_e.html It is very good software considering it is free, however, it is NOT truly like flying this helicopter. What I have learned most from the simulator is orientations......these are absolutely critical to flying an R/C model, let alone an R/C helicopter. In the real world the Walkera No. 4 is a real hand full trying to fly smoothly and precisely, it really takes alot of concentration, patience, skill, EXPERIENCE and love to fly properly. To the unitiated, it is quite a hand full and will require alot of work to keep in the air. In essence, it constantly requires small, fast control inputs before it will drift off somewhere even after being fully trimmed and balanced, that's just the way it is with the stock parts and its small size and weight. I have yet to fly a model in FMS that really nails the Walkera's true flight performance, but this is no knock against FMS what so ever.....and now onto your NO's and RO's, it's all about orientation!
04-29-2005 02:18 AM
 
 
dragon_not_fly
Heliman
Location: US

NO's and RO's!!

You might be asking yourself, what the heck is NO's and RO's and why are they important? NO's and RO's are not just some wackiness that I have concocted, but are nmenonics that I have come up with when using FMS to more fully fly the helis in there in the 2+ months of down time I have experienced with my own heli, more about that later. NO simply stands for Normal Orientation and RO for Reverse Orientation. What's all this ruckus about orientation? What is orientation? When my heli was broken and not flying, for the first time I used FMS to try and fly a model R/C helicopter around; that is, not just try and hover it in one spot over the ground, waist high with the tail facing me. When I started flying the actual helicopter I came up with this simple saying to try and cope with all of its craziness, that saying being: fly the nose, keep the tail. This means, watch the nose of the heli for turning it, but keep the tail of the heli facing you....this simple scenario forms the very basis of my nmenonic of NO or Normal Orientation, which brings us to orientation! Orientation is your perspective or view point when watching your model fly in regards to forming the basis for control inputs to control the model......it's all relative. After a few hours I was surprised that in FMS I was able to fly the hughes fixed pitch heli at full throttle in fast circles around the airfield and was even able to consistently pull off loops with it. In these "virtual" world flights I did crash, but got more proficient. When the model's tail was either facing me directly or for the most part, I noticed that when I pushed the transmitter stick to the left for roll, the heli's body or cabin would lean to the left and it would roll to the left. When I pushed the transmitter stick to the right for roll, the heli's body would roll to the right. The same basic results could be routinely witnessed for yaw(rudder) or pivoting the nose of the heli. All of this is basic knowledge and is intuitive. NO or Normal Orientation I thought could simply be stated or witnessed, either in the simulator or the real heli as,"rudder and roll fore/aft cyclic behave normally"......I know you are saying...so what!!!!; you just said nothing! Normally is defined as, "Move the rudder or roll cyclic sticks left and the heli's nose or body will go left". The same symmetry applies going right. This is extremely important to know, you must have this so INGRAINED in your head that it is ABSOLUTELY instinct......think about stick movements while trying to fly your heli and you are heading for a crash. RO, as you probably have guessed, is the EXACT opposite of NO. RO or Reverse Orientation is very tricky to the new time flyer. RO, I thought, could simply be stated or witnessed, either in the simulator or the real heli, as,"rudder and roll fore/aft cyclic do NOT behave normally". With the inclusion of "Collective" or variable pitch rotor blades, RO also applies as in "negative pitch" as well as NO. With RO you have, "Move the rudder or roll cyclic sticks left and the heli's nose or body will go RIGHT". The same symmetry applies going right with the sticks. Remember what I said before about it's all relative?; in a RO scenario, moving the roll cyclic transmitter stick to the left will make the model tilt or bank to the right from YOUR orientation, however, if an observer were watching this scenario unfold from the TAIL of the heli, he/she would witness the heli's body or cabin tilt or bank to the left from his/her perspective; that is, for the observer it would be a NO or Normal Orientation case. Confused yet?! Don't worry, it's perfectly normal to feel confused at first with all of this, I sure was and STILL am on occasion, even when flying my real heli! A classic example of a RO scenario would be the nose in hover. A nose in hover occurs when the helicopter's NOSE is facing you the controller/observer as it is hovering. If this happens, you are in a RO scenario and all control inputs from your perspective are reversed, except for throttle, this still behaves normally; that is, move the throttle stick up and the heli will go up into the sky all things being held constant. Another aspect of RO is fore/aft cyclic controls; that is, in a nose in hover, a classic RO scenario, if you push forward or up on the fore/aft cyclic control transmitter stick, the heli will move TOWARD you, NOT away from you! If you pull toward you or down on the fore/aft cyclic control transmitter stick, the heli will move AWAY from you, NOT back toward you! I ran into many problems when first exposed to these disorientating experiences on the SIM and realized that I was trying to REMEMBER too many things when trying to control the heli in RO cases. All you need to know is two things regarding RO or Reverse Orientation, when RO takes effect when you are flying your model and when RO occurs that everything is REVERSED!!!!!!!!!!! except for throttle, assuming you are not flying upside down. Probably the most challenging thing that I have witnessed with RO is WHEN it occurs, there are many different angles and orientations a model R/C helicopter can fly at and you must be constantly computing NO/RO INSTINCTIVELY in your brain as you are controlling/observing your model. Again, I have mentioned contoller or controlling/observing....remember when flying any R/C aircraft, you are BOTH a controller and an observer; that is, you must provide the correct control inputs to keep the aircraft flying and in order to do that you must be constantly observing what your model is doing, particularly it's orientation from you. A particularly difficult orientation that I have experienced is a RO case where the heli is flying close to you with the nose of the heli perpendicular to you, this has always been challenging for me since I can not directly observe the angle of bank on the cabin of the heli.....I would be quickly thinking to myself, is it level or slightly banked, I would usually assume wrong and then instantly forget that I am in a RO scenario and would move the control stick in the wrong direction actually aggrevating the bank to the ground!!!!! I hope this helps, I know I will be practising my NO's and RO's always.........and now for the next post which will be coming soon......"flying both sticks".

Last thought, a tough RO scenario or case:
The model helicopter is flying fairly quickly, however, it is upside down, flying backwards and banking to the right from your orientation or perspective; i.e, the nose is generally facing you and you want it to slow down, stop banking, level off and hover in place with the nose facing you, but still upside down. What control input sequence will produce the desired results??
04-29-2005 03:46 AM
 
 
dragon_not_fly
Heliman
Location: US

"flying both sticks"

More ramblings from personal experience in regards to controlling my real heli and on the SIM(FMS). This particular post revolves around the idea that I had in my head which I first put together while flying a helicopter in FMS. When I first started flying the real heli and was practising on the SIM, I would really only fly ONE transmitter stick at any one instant I began to notice, that stick being the "right" transmitter stick usually. The right transmitter stick on my setup was used for controlling roll and fore/aft cyclic, NOT throttle. I would usually set a throttle position and then move around in the air primarily using the right transmitter stick, when I would start to gain/lose altitude I would usually take my hands OFF the right transmitter stick and then quickly move the LEFT transmitter stick up/down a few clicks to compensate for the situtation. This would happen throughout the flight and was actually pretty subtle; that is, the quick toggling between the transmitter sticks in order to control the model. I have to admit that this worked, but precisely controlling the model was difficult. After practising on FMS, there was a single instant where I flew the model in a slow circle above the ground returning where the model was initially hovering using BOTH transmitter sticks SIMULTANEOUSLY..........in other words, I experienced controlling the model in 4 axises at the same time while my thumbs never left the left/right transmitter sticks. I hovered the model in place and was impressed on just how smooth it flew and the level of control that I could exert on it while using both sticks at the same time in order to control it. After this happened, I have been slowly moving away from the old method to using both sticks at the same time, in which, I almost 100% of the time now do this on the sim. I have also transitioned to doing this on the real thing, which, of course, is always more difficult.

As a side note, when flying the real heli initially, I noticed that I started to develop a bad habit of NOT leaving the radio transmitter level with the ground while flying, but would twist the right side up while the left side of the transmitter would be lower. This situation would be aggravated when I would start to lose control of the heli. I believe, primarily why I would do this was that I am right handed coupled with the fact that I was flying with one stick at any one instant instead of both sticks. This is a very bad habit to get into, I find that I get the very best level of control on the real heli when keeping the radio transmitter LEVEL or parallel with the ground, flying both sticks simultaneously and remaining calm/cool/collected. Another thing I have witnessed personally with my real heli is this simple little fact, that fact being, NEVER fly your model when you are nervous/worried/uptight and/or distracted. I did this once and I paid the price with a spectacular crash in my garage.
04-30-2005 06:28 PM
 
 
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