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Ron’s HeliProz South . Century Helicopter . MTA Hobbies

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e-Electric Conversions > Bell Blokes Lama
 
 
Bell Bloke
Key Veteran
Location: England

I tend to use Acrylic car paints because they come in a wide variety of metallic colours but with regard to using paints. There is only one golden rule I stick to and that’s never use cellulose based paints because they will PICKLE any non cellulose based paint that they are sprayed onto. I just stick to using Acrylics from a can, and for the weathering I use Tube Acrylic the same paint that artists use instead of oil paint. For fuel proofing use a non-cellulose based paint. This normally comes either as a 2 pack paint that is to say you mix in a hardener and you have about a hour before there is a reaction and it sets like glue. Now you can paint that stuff over anything and the most caustic of fuels will not remove it. Then there are the enamel and polyurethane based clear fuel proofers these are fuel resistant too, but you should always clean your model as they will break down over time if left. So just to recap.
1. No cellulose Except for the first Etch prime.
2. Then it's Acrylic all the way. Acrylic for the colour of your heli and paint to a perfect finish. Then lightly rub it down, only lightly though and with the finest grade of car body shop wet and dry (sandpaper) you can get. This should be just enough to allow the fuel proofer to key onto it. If you are using a MATT finish paint there is no need to rub it down at all.
3. Then use Artists Acrylic tube paints and, or pencil graphite for your Dirtying Down.
4. Finally fuel proof, use a clear 2-pack paint that is the best, ask your local model shop. The stuff here in England is different to what you have over the pond, But the golden rule on this one is, make sure it is NOT cellulose or cellulose based otherwise all of your Acrylic will come off, and if in doubt test a piece to make sure there is no reaction.(not on the model)
You know something, I've had a thought, why not fly electric, it would save you buying fuel proofer, and not only would it look like a real heli, it would sound more like one too, and your model wouldn't leave an oily splat wherever you put it down!
Good luck Stephan, and lets see your heli build up!
Ps. Boyd you've been very quiet, post some pics lets see what you're doing. You're not putting Rockets on that Lama are you?
All The Best!
01-27-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Bell Bloke
Key Veteran
Location: England

[quote]Gstjohn wrote on 02-05-2005 01:35 AM:
Hi Bell Bloke
I saw your gallery with your Hirobo Lama and I am very impressed. I too have a hirobo Lama and would like to ask you a few questions about yours. first is I noticed that you have blade spacing cables on the main rotor blades, do you keep them on in flight? and if so what are they made out of and how does it fly with them? Who makes the 3 bladed Tail rotor that you have on yours? I have found the Century Helicopter products has one but I am not sure what it looks like or if it will fit.

Thank you for answering my questions, and very nice job again on your Lama. I work on the full size Lamas and yours is very well done.

Greg St. John

Hi Greg, the blade spacing cables are made of modellers closed loop cable, that is steel cable coated in clear plastic. This is attached to the leading blade on the outmost screw and then hooks onto a tiny spring on the trailing blade inner screw. This set-up allows the blades to lead and lag and will not effect flying. The tail unit is a Century one but you will have to make the tail slider tube. This means you retain the tail gearbox, which you don't touch. The Lama tail pitch plate assembly you retain but, and this is the tricky bit. You must separate the outer unit (the bit that connects to the servo arm) from the 2 armed blade actuator and substitute it for the Century 3 way blade pitch actuator. This means that you have to make up a piece of metal tube that will slide freely over the tailbox drive shaft, and retain these 2 components allowing them to rotate freely. Your would need to turn one up at work or do what I did, buy a tiny lathe for home. Mine is a little beauty. It's 1.5 foot long and has an accuracy of 0.001 of an inch, Bloody Great! Now I've got it I'm turning up all kinds of things. Best of luck to you, any more probs give us a shout (post)
02-05-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Ian748
Heliman
Location: Cheddar - UK

"turning up all sorts of things"

Yeh, I know the sort of party's you go too!
02-07-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Ian748
Heliman
Location: Cheddar - UK

And before you say it, i'm now a Heliman so that last post was more than worth it!!
02-07-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Skeeter Pilot
Senior Heliman
Location: England

Bell Bloke, Let us know when you go to the next one of those parties.
----------------------------------------------------

If there is soil going over the canopy, you're too low!
02-07-2005 Over year old.
 
 
stephanuccio
Heliman
Location: Los Angeles

Hi Bell Bloke

What does it take financially to convert the Lama to Electric ? i am not talking top of the line, state of the art, high tech stuff. I just would like to get a ball park of the cost of a normal, functioning, electric conversion.Someone told me that it is very expensive.
I personally know absolutely nothing about it.

Also, you talk of a 2part fuel proofing spray. Do you mean that it comes in 2 spray cans and you have to spray both with a hour of each other, or does one has to mix them before spraying (maybe using a airbrush). As you can tell , my ignorance in regards to this is immense. (I am a great 1/8 car modeler though ! check it out : www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.asp?cid=25774&id=3602)

I can't to start working on my Lama.

Thanks for all you help (and great picture of you little "smart" car. I drive a huge Chevy Tahoe in Los Angeles. There would be more room for your fabulous helis !)
02-10-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Bell Bloke
Key Veteran
Location: England

Hi stephanuccio, I'm not completely up to date with component costs in the US, so I may stand corrected. The Hacker motor is $200, Thunderpower 3s4p packs (x2) are $230 each and the speed controller is $60 & finally the Li-po chargers (x2) $100 each. So your total is $920! That is a lot of money, but you will never have to buy fuel again, and provided you charge your Li-pos correctly you will have no problems with them. We all fly Li-pos and although some people I knew told me of horror stories they had read, none of us has ever had a pack fail. I've been flying Li-Pos since 2003 still on my original 8000mah packs and still getting full capacity!! In fact let me list the pros and cons for you.
PROS:
1/ No more fuel to buy (there's a saving)
2/ No more engine failures
3/ No more Worrying about engine failures
4/ No more trying to get engine running correctly
5/ No more Bloody Horrible Noise
6/ No more Bloody Horrible smoke
7/ No more oil dirt and mess to upset ones girlfriend / wife / boyfriend / or horse!
8/ 30 mins non-stop flying in back yard without annoying the neighbours!
9/ Wonderful real sounding helicopter with a scale sound to match its scale looks!
10/ No more having to fuel proof your model.

CONS:
1/ It's expensive to start with
2/ 30mins flying with 1hr recharge (This is not as bad as it sounds, because 30mins is a lot of air time. I tend to fly for 15-20mins put heli back on charge for 20 mins and do another 10-15mins and so on. The good thing about Li-Pos is you can top them up as you use them. I do this even when they are warm. Li-pos also spend about 20% of their charge time squeezing in the last 5% of their capacity. This just wastes flying time, so on my 8000mah packs when in the field I pull them early at 6500-7000mah and fly them at that.
If you want to fly all day almost non stop you would need 2 sets of cells which would put your budget at $1320 but then your transmitter would go flat!
I really feel that 1 set of cells is enough, I'm mad about flying Scale helis but even I've had enough after 20mins. A break and a rest + watching other people fly with a coffee and 1.5 hours can just slip by it's surprising. Also you have to let other people use the channel you're on at somepoint too, that's easily 30mins gone)

On fuel proofing, the paint comes in 2 pots, which you mix together and then airbrush on. Make sure you flush through the airbrush after use.

I tried to look at your site but am unable to get it, not sure why.
PS.
One more point electric brushless motors are maintenance free and don't wear out or loose performance.
Hope this helps. Electric may seem a bit daunting but it's not that bad, if you just tell people what you want to convert on this site, you will get loads of good advice, and you will find your answer. I often talk to Ian748 or skeeter pilot about electric and what would we do without it. Both Ian and myself agree that we would not ever want to fly a scale 2-stroke heli. If Li-Pos did not exist I would have to fly a 4-stroke heli they can sound ok. The other option would be to sell Grandmother, hire a transporter, and fire crew and buy a turbine! Skeeter pilot does have a 2 stroke baron 60 with state of the art modifications. He part exchanged his house for this chopper in the 1980s, it's an impressive machine but you should wear ear muffs when flying it! He is now an electric convert too, so much so that he is looking for some Li-Pos big enough to go in full-size Skeeter

02-10-2005 Over year old.
 
 
stephanuccio
Heliman
Location: Los Angeles

Bell Bloke,

what would I do without you. So a Scale Heli beginner like me, you have been a fantastic resource.
I will consider the $1000. It does make a lot of sense and I would love to get ride of the nitro smell !
here is the address where you can see some of my models (I added http:// this time so maybe it will work. otherwise juts cut and past. Not that these cars take me about 6 months each to make. 2 a year or so. real leather seats, real wood panelling, fully functioning brakes, windows, motors crank and pistons etc...)

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_...d=25774&id=3602

Another thing about electric. How does one fixes the motor ? Do you need a custom made metal Mounting plate / brackets etc...
If I go this route I am going to need a lot more help.

I also want to buy the 3 blade tail rotor from century. I read your piece on that and you mentioned something about turning some alu to make the thing fit. well, no need to tell you that I don;t have this machine and I am going to need you to turn it for me !!!
02-10-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Bell Bloke
Key Veteran
Location: England

Bloody Hell stephanuccio! And there's me telling you how to put a model together! I think you have got no worries on this one!! You clearly know what you are doing! I really do think electric is for you, because you can fly the model and keep adding detail as you go (Bits tend to fall off oily models). You will also have a more reliable heli because of lack of vibration and little or no risk of engine stall.
As for the tail and engine stuff. Once I've flown my Lama and thoroughly tested the engine mounts and tail set-up I will gladly send you a duplicate set ready to go straight into your Lama. I just need your Hirobo+Century tail parts to do the conversion and your address. Any excuse to use my lathe again!
All the Best!
02-10-2005 Over year old.
 
 
stephanuccio
Heliman
Location: Los Angeles

Well, I glad you got to see the masochistic madness of my car kits. I am making a Mercedes from 1936 right now. I will send you pictures of the engine when it's done in about one month.

Thanks for the offer of duplicate parts. That is very nice and will help me trememdously. I just ordered the 3 blade tail rotor from century, (part CN1201 from their website). I think that is the only one they offer so I was under the impression that would be an exact match to the one you used (didn't you say that you used a Century 3 blade tail rotor on a previous post ?)

As far as the 3s4p batteries, do you plan to use 2 packs at the same time or you advised me to get 2 to swap them ? Also, I hear that these packs are big and long. where do you put the batteries on the lama without affecting the scale look ? Do you take the cells apart and rebuild them in the right shape to fit inside ? I really would love to see picture of an electric se-up. even if it's not on your newly painted Lama. (I still can't get over the beauty of your paint job. I am a pretty good painter as my cars show but I only do a "fresh-out -of-the-showroom" look, not the great "well-seasoned" look).

Thanks again for your help. I can build anything if I am told how at least once (OK, well maybe twice !) but without the help I lack in creativity and courage.
02-10-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Bell Bloke
Key Veteran
Location: England

Yes it is the Century tail rotor that I have, and unfortunately it is x2 3s4p 8000mah packs that I am using on the Lama at the same time! This is because they will fit neatly into the scale side cages that I scratch built from photos of the originals. If you compare my cages to the ones in the link. I have found that they tend to sling all kinds of stuff from the underside of Lamas! The 3s4p cells are standard packs and fit strait into the cages I have made, they will then be covered in a tarpaulin, with skis climbing gear and other mountain rescue stuff. Once My Lama is working I will gladly publish my results in great detail. All The Best!


http://www.airliners.net/open.file?...&next_id=483461
02-11-2005 Over year old.
 
 
stephanuccio
Heliman
Location: Los Angeles

Again, you are a great source. Check the newer thread on "electric conversion". From TP. It seems that this guy has a complete "off the shelf" conversion package for the raptor. I asked him if he would create one for the lama ! It would be much easier to buy the whole conversion package from a single source.
Either way, your advises are great and I now beleive I am going straight to electric with my Lama. I know about the engine, the charger, the batteries. Now you need to tell me more about the ESC and the whole hook up of the whole set-up.
I can't wait to see your pictures as you make your lama an electric flying machine. I am counting on you. I am also counting on you for all the machines/custom brackets needed for the conversion. I have no tools to allow me to make any such customizations here.
For all you great help, I would gladly invite you to visit Southern California ! A lot of people would be very impressed by your great scale helis.
02-13-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Hoverup
Elite Veteran
Location: Gulf Coast

Listen, you get Bell Bloke on an airplane and I'll bring my E-Lama along when I visit my son in Marina del Rey in May and we'll have an E- Lama meet at Torrey Pines.

Cheers - Boyd
AMA80393
Major USAF
Retired
02-13-2005 Over year old.
 
 
stephanuccio
Heliman
Location: Los Angeles

No problem boyd. It would be a pleasure although I will not be in you guy's league. I am new to the heli hobby. As I told Bell Bloke before, I usally build very detailed scale Classic cars. I just decided to start with Heli and will devote a lot of time to it but still May seems a little short !
Hey, you hear this Bell bloke. We got a meeting at Torey Pines (beautiful cliff area near in San Diego. Great Golf course) with Boyd.
E-Lama seems the way to go. Any further help / advise in acheiving this goal is appreciated.

Thanks so much guy.
02-13-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Hoverup
Elite Veteran
Location: Gulf Coast

I saw your work and you can teach us a few things. Your cars are museum quality.

Cheers - Boyd
AMA80393
Major USAF
Retired
02-13-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Bell Bloke
Key Veteran
Location: England

Hi Gents, sorry I’ve been logged off for a while. Thankyou for your very kind invite to the USA! stephanuccio if you can hang fire on buying the motor etc. Boyd and I will be testing soon, he has a 15XL I have a16XL.
We will compare notes e.g. weight, air time etc. Then you will be able to decide your best move. Raptor conversion will be lighter than our set-up and will give more performance, but you don't want a 3d-style heli. Infact I spend most of the time trying to hold the Bell back and fly slower. The extra weight it carries does make it very smooth and solid to fly, and wind has far less effect on it that my lighter helis. All this makes it look much bigger in the air than it actually is. And this weights effect on flight duration is compensated for by x2 8000mah packs. I have to say that this conversion is not the most efficient way of doing things, But scale is about mimicking the flight characteristics of the real deal so on this occasion heavy may be best. With regard to mounts and stuff I will help you no worries
02-13-2005 Over year old.
 
 
stephanuccio
Heliman
Location: Los Angeles

Your right. I have no interest in 3D.
I will wait for your tests. So good to have 2 experts experiment on the e-lama so I can benefit from your experiences ! I am not in a rush. I have to finish a car I have been commissioned to build for someone (that can take me another 3-4 months). After that I will really be able to concentrate on building the Lama. So I may loose contact we you guys but I will be back. And I certainly would love to be kept informed on your progress.

I have a century 3 blade tail rotor on the way, I am about to order a new Lama and I will also order the 3 blade main rotor (although I am afraid from some people's comments that it will make the heli much harder to fly.). Of course I love the scale look of the 3 blade main rotor but is it really going to be much harder ? As you guys know I have little experience flying RC Helis. Do you feel it is a terribly bad idea to go straight to 3 blade head ?
02-13-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Bell Bloke
Key Veteran
Location: England

I know most people will say don't go 3 bladed, I have not flown one but, they would not make them if they were impossible to fly. The guys that do fly them are not superhuman! So mere mortals such as us must be able to get the hang of them. Many people tell me that the Piccolo is impossible to fly and that it is a bit of a pig, but there are plenty that would disagree with that.
They and I get on fine with the little blighter, it's just different. Mind you I wouldn't try and learn on one only coz there is one more blade to break and a lot of hard work there. Get a trainer to learn on.
02-13-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Skeeter Pilot
Senior Heliman
Location: England

Bell Bloke, take extra empty cases when you go to Southern California so Ian and I can join you. Mod'ed the V2 Hummer tonight, made a platform and moved the board and r/x up front. Can't test till tomorrow as had a hell of a sesh this afternoon and flattened 5 li-po packs.
Will try and get some pics up later!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------

If there is soil going over the canopy, you're too low!
02-13-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Ian748
Heliman
Location: Cheddar - UK

Can't we take the skeeter??
02-14-2005 Over year old.
 
 
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