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Mikado Modellhubschrauber . GrandRC . CanoMod

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Autogyros - Gyrocopters > FW-GY-Hel Hybrid
 
 
Tomas
Heliman
Location: Michigan [lower southwest corner]

I am trying to maneuver my way through the way this forum is desplayed so I might be swinging through the wrong tree here, so please be kind to a wayward stranger.

I fly helicopters and fix wing [sel] and have, in the far distant past, flown in a two seat gyro. My interest is in combining all three technologies into a single hybrid. I have the aerodynamics worked out and the linkage schematic is complicated but doable. Since you people have the market on Gyro technology, does anyone know of a company or individual that has built something like what I have described?

I am familiar with the helicopter market and somewhat familiar with the ultraLights and ultraSport fix wings. There is nothing I have found that resembles a hybrid. Gyro builders have the best market for implimenting contemporary designs; free spirited thinkers

Any info is appreciated. Any builders out there let me know if you might be interested in exploring this idea further.

Thanks
Tomas
Personal Profile
07-29-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Gyronut
Elite Veteran
Location: Martinsville In.

Hello

Have you visited either.
www.gyronuts.com or www.autogyro.com yet..???

I think you will find the answers you are looking for.

Rick
07-30-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Tomas
Heliman
Location: Michigan [lower southwest corner]

Rick

Thanks Rick, I am on it.

By the way, do any of you guys do air shows? Some of these RC's look really nice. There is an ultrlight airshow August 21, 2004 in Michigan near Kalamazoo.

Newman's Air Field 4N0, 9.6 DME on the 319 radial, from AZO VOR

Contact: Larry Bowdish
07-31-2004 Over year old.
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XeroG
Heliman
Location: USA

Tomas:

I was wandering through this forum and thought now may be a good time to share this with the gyro gang. I built this model about two years ago combining a K&S Silkywind ARF and a JR Venture CCPM mechanics. I have always wanted to do something like this since autogyros are signature of "the golden age" and the Silkywind captures the era perfectly. As you can see by the photos, IT FLIES. I used a number of mixes in my helicopter radio to make this platform more interesting to fly. I have a take off flight mode as well as cruise around flight mode. I have been doing some helicopter like auto-rotations with it as well.

Have a look......

[img] /helicopter/gallery/17988/2Bquarterview.jpg [desc]
[img] /helicopter/gallery/17988/4Bbird.jpg [desc]
[img] /helicopter/gallery/17988/4Bside.jpg [desc]
[img] /helicopter/gallery/17988/Frame.jpg [desc]
[img] /helicopter/gallery/17988/Install.jpg [desc]
[img] /helicopter/gallery/17988/4Bflair.jpg [desc]
[img] /helicopter/gallery/17988/2compare.jpg [desc]

XeroG
08-10-2004 Over year old.
 
 
XeroG
Heliman
Location: USA

I have not posted pictures a while so I may not have the hang of it, but you can get there by clicking my gallery.

XeroG
08-10-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Tomas
Heliman
Location: Michigan [lower southwest corner]

XeroG

Yes , I got to your gallery. Very nice. Did you build from a kit or design it yourself? I am trying to get some ideas on how to build a hybrid helicopter-gyro-airplane much like you have only with twin push engines on the wings and a powered rotor shaft that can be disengaged. Should be able to cut down on the tail as well. Any ideas?

Have you every heard of anything like that?
08-10-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Saint728
Elite Veteran
Location: Sydney Australia Sponsored by: Quick UK

To get your photos to work on your thread, you need to click just under the picture in your gallery you want to post. A pop up window will apear with a highlighted title in it. Right click on that title, copy it, then paste it here. It will look like this when your done.


Take Care,
Cheers, Patrick

MA Fury Extreme,YS 91,MPII,V-Blades,601
Raptor 50 SE,OS50 Hyper,MPII,QUK Head,TT600 Blades,601
08-10-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Optech
Key Veteran
Location: Vista/Oceanside, CA.

XeroG,

Your Silky Wind gyro is totally cool. Several years ago I had the idea to do the something similar but after trials and tribulations with a Robbe Whopper gave up on the idea.

Explain your flight modes in more detail. Have you tried "Jump" take-off using collective? Speaking of collective, whats your pitch range?

How long does it take to get the rotors up to speed for take off?

Thanks,
Mike

Viva La Airtronics!
08-10-2004 Over year old.
 
 
XeroG
Heliman
Location: USA

MIke:

I am embarassed to say that I really have never put a pitch guage on it. For a interesting point of reference, I do NOT have to spin up the main rotor system as the four blades will spin up as soon as you point it into the wind. I basically use the cyclic as my dominant control system and then mix elevator and rudder into the cyclic channels. I have done not done any hop-up take offs as they are kind of contrary to the autogyro lift principles. I have done some neg autos and applied pos pitch at the bottom with a flair which look pretty cool. I do mix different degrees of pitch in using throttle stick position, allowing to have varying speeds of forward flight; autogyros usually go higher not faster when throttle is applied. I am also using a JR 10X which allows me to use the trimmer tabs on the side of the radio to fine tune the pitch while flying.

I really have not explored the flight envelope too much with this thing as I have many projects that I am involved with. I do a lot of prototype work and was hoping that one of the heli manufactures would pick this idea up? As of yet I seem to be the biggest fan!

Mike, heres a question for you. I looked on your gallery and saw a Bergen with a camera mount and what looks like a GPS sensor on the tail, what is it?

Barron

XeroG
08-10-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Optech
Key Veteran
Location: Vista/Oceanside, CA.

Barron,

Quote 
I do mix different degrees of pitch in using throttle stick position, allowing to have varying speeds of forward flight; autogyros usually go higher not faster when throttle is applied.

Neat.... I was going to ask you if you added any down thrust to the stock motor mounting?

Quote 
I do a lot of prototype work and was hoping that one of the heli manufactures would pick this idea up? As of yet I seem to be the biggest fan!

And I suppose the Whopper's reputation did not do anything to help the situation any either. In general though, autogyro'nauts are far a few between so the lack of any kind of mass production possibilities will probably always limits a'gyro mfgs to the cottage industry.

Do you have any idea what kind of angle you tilted the mast back?

I also noticed you've used a two and a four bladed rotor. How did the two blade fly and spin up? Is the four blade hub something you built or is it commercial?


The unit on the tail of that Bergen is a Garmin self contained WAAS enabled GPS receiver/antenna. It is part of the telemetry system. We were using it for pilot out-of-visual-site flying and for high altitude observation. It worked okay but we think the tail rotor tail disk interupted the satellite signal too much and we would get drop outs. When time allows we're going to redesign a landing gear set-up that will allow more room and easier mounting for instumentation packages.

Mike

Viva La Airtronics!
08-10-2004 Over year old.
 
 
XeroG
Heliman
Location: USA

Mike:

As you can see by the pictures there is a good amount of down thrust to the engine and ofcourse the main mast is tilted back too, how much....I cant remember, but I will see if I can find my notes over the next few days. To be candid, I "eye balled" alot of this design based on what I know about helicopters in auto rotation state and my other experiences with airplanes.

Everything I thought I new about auto rotation in helicopters led me to do this project and even got me headed into the two bladed head. I used to do trick where I would basically stall the helicopters rotor and restart it again in my autos, this led me to think that getting a two bladed head going on my plane should be easy, I as wrong. I put a spinner on top of the head and even used and electric starter to spool up. It kind of worked but it only got off the ground using the four bladed head.

As soon as I bolted on the blades the main rotor (4 bladed) started spooling up on the bench! At this point I know it would work. I was also able to do all the tracking on the bench (at the field) and play with changing the pitch to check the effect on rpm.

I think it probably is time again for a helicopter manufacturer to make one of these for the market, I really have not shown it to anyone except K&S who does the design work for JR.

The rotor head is a prototype of the JR four bladed head. You can now buy these as an off the shelf item.

Where you able to fly the bergen beyond line of sight?

barron

XeroG
08-10-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Optech
Key Veteran
Location: Vista/Oceanside, CA.

Barron,
Quote 
I cant remember, but I will see if I can find my notes over the next few days.
I would like to see how your numbers compare to accepted conventional model gyro numbers.

Its too bad you could not get it to work with the two blades. The cost of a four blade head does not bode for enticing mfgs to produce something like this. I'm wondering if a multi-blade head would improve the Whopper??? What blades are you using? Airfoil shape?

After spinning the two-blade with the starter motor what happened? The two blade gyros I've flown work but you have to coax them into autorotation.


The beyond-sight sorta worked. I was able to fly the heli but was never weaned off a safety observer. That plus telemetry problems put that experiment on hold for now. One thing I found is that it is very hard to hover at high altitude. Before you can detect significant movement of the landscape in the video, the heli is moving at a significant pace. The safety observer would have to continuosly update me as to keeping position which really negates what we were trying to do. I think with different lens sizes, improved telemetry and more practice it can be done.

Mike

Viva La Airtronics!
08-12-2004 Over year old.
 
 
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Autogyros - Gyrocopters > FW-GY-Hel Hybrid
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