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Thunder Power RC	.	Mikado Modellhubschrauber	.	Futaba-RC
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e-Mikado Logo 400 500 600 > Check this logo 10

vince
Senior Heliman
Location: Victoria BC Canada

http://www.success-info.com/logo_boxed_2.wmv

07-20-2004 Over year old.

Torkroll
Senior Heliman
Location: Bakersfield Ca

I was told by Robert at www.e-heli.com that the best set up for my Logo 10 - Konictronic 600-18 would be 5s3p, and a 13 tooth, and a headspeed or 2070 and a motor speed of about 32K.

Now I am thinking that using "the box", 40K rpm, and 6s2p cells, would be better.

Robert said 5s2p would be a bit too hard on the pack (not using the box) He talked to TP. The further gear reduction will reduce the current out of the cells though right?

So does anyone know if the Konictronics motor will be as happy as the Hacker is, at higher rpm, or should I go with the original set-up?

Thanks,
Jerry

07-20-2004 Over year old.

Lost Horizon
Heliman
Location: Victoria BC

The Kontronik 600-18 looks, performs and feels pretty much the same as the B50-13L on the Box.. I have tried them both.

I have also run the kontronik on 5s3p for about 80 flights, and managed to trip the ESC only once on over amps/heat with 2 fans and a heatsink. On the box, it's not even close to being a problem.

dana
www.rceheli.com

07-20-2004 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Torkroll
Senior Heliman
Location: Bakersfield Ca

Thanks for the info !

Are the fans needed if I use "the box" ?

Where do I order "the box" ?

Where do I order 6s2p's ?

Where do I order 19(?) tooth ?

Thanks Dana.

07-20-2004 Over year old.

Lost Horizon
Heliman
Location: Victoria BC

>Are the fans needed if I use "the box" ?
Haven't tested that yet, as my setup is a carryover from the 5s3p 15 cell testing, but my guess is no, unless you are flying in 100 deg temps, and I'd also say you don't need the heat sink as the box acts as a heat sink by itself.

>Where do I order "the box" ?
They should start appearing at selected dealers about 20 days after the testing is completed, which should be done this coming week.. There is testing going on for the ION class motors and packs with C50-15XL's and 10s setups for glow conversions and existing electric conversions that can benefit from 'turbine rpm' power, and a very robust heat treated and quiet helical primary setup..

>Where do I order 6s2p's ?
I am using the newest 4200 3s2p TP's in series.. i.e., 2 packs of 3s2p's back to back. They fit exactly where the Logo 10 fits it 10 round cells... we have come full circle..

>Where do I order 19(?) tooth ?
From any dealer who sells Mikado.. the beauty of this boxed setup is that the pinion size x 100 on any 40,000 rpm motor kv/pack voltage combo pretty much gives the Rotor RPM at 100% ESC.
The pinions for the L10 200T go all the way from 13 to (I think) 24..

07-20-2004 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

vince
Senior Heliman
Location: Victoria BC Canada

I had the first flight on this logo 10 stock set up I think. All I can say is that it sucked bad.
The video does not do it justice. It rocks; I hope to get more time on this wicked new setup. I was able to do a right and left hand inverted climbing funnels, tic tocks and huge Cuban eights. On those 2 flights, we used 2.9 AH of the 4.2 in the pack.
This set up will be oh so sweet with good blades.

07-20-2004 Over year old.

Torkroll
Senior Heliman
Location: Bakersfield Ca

Thanks Dana,

Vince, it does look good, pulling some big manuvers for such a little chopper -

07-22-2004 Over year old.

Dr Lodge
Elite Veteran
Location: Guildford, Surrey - UK

What's the secondary gear reduction ratio on the box?

07-26-2004 Over year old.

vince
Senior Heliman
Location: Victoria BC Canada

I think it says all the specs in the opening of the video

07-26-2004 Over year old.

Lost Horizon
Heliman
Location: Victoria BC

Dr Lodge, the primary reduction is 2:1 and the secondary is 10.52:1 for an overall of 21:1 ( the secondary pinion is a 19T against a 200T main)

The Logo 10 has the good fortune of having pinions from 13T all the way to 24, so you can mix and match a lot of power plants in there at their most efficient top end hi voltage and get the rotor speed you want at the sweet spot..

07-26-2004 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Dr Lodge
Elite Veteran
Location: Guildford, Surrey - UK

Ah, I thought it must be about 2:1, thanks. I have a B50-14L I think (might be a 13L), so this setup will work gr8 for me. I haven't yet moved to LiPos and am running 13 cell packs, both NiCD and NiMH. Its OK, but lacks that "punch" and "grunt".

I'm looking out for more news from Cyberheli to see when they're out.

07-26-2004 Over year old.

Lost Horizon
Heliman
Location: Victoria BC

If you are going from 13 round cells ( where I started out, btw, and where Vince first flew it, (and trash talked it above.. hehe) to the 2 stage box you see in the video, you will be absolutely blown away. The last configuration I had tried on the 13L was a 5s3p on the single stage, and I was staggered by the difference from that to the 6s2p..

Even more impressive to me is the fact that the whole setup runs so much cooler than anything I've ever used on it.

Here is another video of me flying it (there is a launch in there).. the guy who took this video is used to photographing buildings, so it's heavily edited where there is a lot of "where did it go? stuff..

Logo 10 on the Box - part 2

07-26-2004 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

woodscra
Senior Heliman
Location: Texas

Just what in the world is "the box"? People here mention it but do not describe it in any way. If some one would educate me I would appreciate it.
Thanks for your time.

Craig

07-29-2004 Over year old.

Dr Lodge
Elite Veteran
Location: Guildford, Surrey - UK

It a two stage gear reduction contraption, mounts on the front of the heli for high voltage applications. The motor then mounts at the front "horizontally". It gives 2:1 reduction before your pinion:200 main gear reduction.

I've seen a photo of it, can remember where tho

07-29-2004 Over year old.

vince
Senior Heliman
Location: Victoria BC Canada

At the end of the video you can see the box

07-29-2004 Over year old.

woodscra
Senior Heliman
Location: Texas

Thank you, that is helpful. When you say high voltage, at what voltage level are you speaking of with "high voltage"? I guess a 4s4p is not high voltage with only 4 series.

What benefit is the box supposed to provide, to allow the use if "high voltage", but what gain does that give? More batteries in parallel helps current draw.

Craig

07-29-2004 Over year old.

Dr Lodge
Elite Veteran
Location: Guildford, Surrey - UK

HV = eg 6s2p. higher voltage = higher motor speed and for any given power, less torque therefore less current, therefore less heat generated by motor and ESC.

At least, that's the theory. Motor is doing 30-40000 rpm.

07-29-2004 Over year old.

Stephen
Senior Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

And you are looking at 4 to 5ps

07-29-2004 Over year old.

Lost Horizon
Heliman
Location: Victoria BC

The Motor is running at 40,000 because the voltage is higher... the kV of the motor determines that. The Power is the Voltage times the current. Double the voltage, and you halve the current, or, in Lipo terms, double the "s" and halve the "p". Lipo's are happier that way. They are good at voltage, and less good at high amps.

On the Mechanical side of the equation, the RPM times Torque is power to the blades. Double the motor RPM and you halve the motor torque you need for the same power. Higher RPM and Lower Torque are typically a recipe for greater electrical efficiency for the class of motors used with this stuff, within their acceptable speed limit. That's why they run so much cooler when unloaded torque wise..

The approach is a bit like Formula 1 in a funny way.. use small, light motor packages putting out higher power by using higher RPM with a transmission to get the torque converted back up at the output.

In the machine you see there in the video, it used to run on 5s3p (15 Lipo cells), and with the box, it runs on 6s2p (12 cells) with much better performance.

07-29-2004 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

woodscra
Senior Heliman
Location: Texas

All great responses, it is logical. I appreciate those responses.

This begs the question will Mikado start including this in their kits?

If just starting out, would it be good to go with the box or go with the standard logo 10 3D?

Craig

07-29-2004 Over year old.

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e-Mikado Logo 400 500 600 > Check this logo 10

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