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RunRyder Member Service > Will the Bozos take down RunRyder?
 
 
driftrider
Veteran
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA. (In my own little world)

I don't agree with publishing static IPs...

The internet can be a dangerous enough place as it is without sending out open invitations to malicious hackers. I, like many others, am on a cable connection protected by antivirus and firewall software that effectively hides my connection from hackers searching for a vunerable system. If you publish IP addresses you've made it that much easier for malicious users to hack your system.

Why don't we just publish everyones credit card and social security numbers too?

I don't think so.

Mike
05-21-2002 02:15 AM
 
 
Mark Ryder
Elite Veteran
Location: Encino, CA

I don't agree with publishing static IPs...


Only Bozo IP's will be revealed. It will be somewhat difficult to join ClubBozo and once a member the Bozo will enjoy the many benefits of being an outcast.

Mark
05-21-2002 02:31 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
sykochin
Senior Heliman
Location: GoWest

Hey. That's a good idea "ClubBozo"
Agree. Publish those Bozos' IP.!
But Mark.... I'm not an angel, I sometimes got cought into a heated arg too, but I'm not a Bozo. I've been good so far since I started smoking this local weed.
05-21-2002 02:47 AM
 
 
Smokecover
Heliman
Location: Norfolk Va.

I agree with driftrider, if you need help keeping the forums in order just get some mods to help. I also agree that there's no reason at all that you should ever even need to post someones ip addy. If they have a static addy you can just ban that ip address whenever you want, and if it's dynamic it doesnt do any good to ban it. If you posted a new thread warning them about how they are acting it would get more accomplished. Nothing like being embarrassed in front of your friends a little to get ya straight
05-21-2002 02:52 AM
 
 
Augusto
rrAdvertiser
Location: San Diego, CA

I think I know how to solve the issue

If you place a couple of buttons or links on each post to vote for deleting that post and the other one for deleting the whole thread then you would have not one person with excesive power but a concensus from several people that agreed by their votes to delete that particular post or thread.

If you set the threshold to say 8 votes then you wouldn't have to be policing the place all the time. People would be careful to make sure that what their post is not offensive or BS just to make sure their posts are not automatically deleted by the majority. Having one's posts deleted by the majority gives a person a clear indication that the majority thinks his posts are BS. Also keeping and publishing a counter on how many posts that person has had deleted along with how many posts they have would also indicate how reliable their information is.

If several knowledgeable users vote for deletion of somebody's answer for finding it to be misleading then you've given experts the power to direct the discussion a bit. This would also solve the feeling that your posts are at a single person's discretion when maybe you don't respect that moderator's opinion anyway.

Augusto

Avant Aurora Ultimate
05-21-2002 03:10 AM
 
 
SemiArticulate
Veteran
Location: On Location

But I think you can construe troll guard as an internal purpose .
05-21-2002 03:24 AM
 
 
Mark Ryder
Elite Veteran
Location: Encino, CA

furyflyer

Life is too short and I am going to make a stand here. I will not back down from today’s new policy decisions. ClubBozo will be very difficult to join, but once joined all aliases will be revealed including IP’s. Granted the more creative Bozos will spoof their IP’s but their identity will indeed be revealed.

This whole exercise revolves around the problem of my time and others being wasted and abused (bozo gets our attention too often). If this does not work then there is another alternative (pull the plug).
05-21-2002 04:06 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
03fomoco
Senior Heliman
Location: Tucson AZ

Drift Rider

Hey good point drift I wasn't even thinking. I am behind a router which is a physical firewall. I think this is getting more and more popular. I remember the single IP days and would not want that listed. I have seen boards where the IP is listed with every post.

-Dave

Sadly Sponsored by: VISA, MASTERCARD, and Bank of America
05-21-2002 04:50 AM
 
 
nutswinger
Senior Heliman
Location: TX

pulling the plug would probably reduce the overhead around here quite a bit, can't quite imagine what other benies might come from it though.
any of you guys know if there is any truth to the rumor that ask the pros site is offering free advertising to the dealers/mfgrs?
05-21-2002 04:54 AM
 
 
Stet
Elite Veteran
Location: Long Beach CA

Bozo Forum

Why not create a "Bozo" forum? Any bozo posts could simply be moved to that forum where they could receive the full brunt of the membership. Then they would have their own special place, just for them, for all to know them as being a part of.
05-21-2002 05:24 AM
 
 
SemiArticulate
Veteran
Location: On Location

Where is this "ask the pros site"? Although I plan on spending a lot less time online (cabin fever finally gone). I might have a few questions to try throwing at them.
05-21-2002 05:58 AM
 
 
nutswinger
Senior Heliman
Location: TX

there was a post by davidh in main discusion, "new forum"
05-21-2002 06:45 AM
 
 
xcelllogo
Senior Heliman
Location: San Diego

The only way is to police our self.... If a new person asks "what is the best .30 size heli?" We shouldn't yell at him and say we have gone over this topic 30 times we should have a place to point him that has an unbiased opinion on the top 2-3 .30 size helis. Same goes for most "typical" questions we get here gyro's, fuel etc. So in other words I agree with Mark. We have to remember that some other guys fly's another helicopter or is giving bad advice but we are a small community and should try to help as much as we can not put people down. If you want to flame some one go after bin dumb dumb. I think there should be a few moderators that get emailed if some one is flaming.. Then the Mod can warn the person once then if the person doesn't comply then his account be wiped. I know this is a long drawn out way but I am sure Mark can block IP's (I think) Or ColeopTer can write a program to do it...IMO<
Adam
05-21-2002 09:47 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
irq
Key Veteran
Location: San Diego, CA

I have two things to say:

THING ONE {
1) There is nothing illegal, at all, about posting someone's IP address. At all.

2) There are only three things someone can do with your IP address, and all of these things are disrupted once it changes, which with the majority of people who come here, happens a lot: a) connect to a service that you provide over it; b) malliciously exploit a service that you are providing; c) flood it. Thing (a) is obviously acceptible; if thing (b) can happen to you, you deserve it; and thing (c) can be fixed by changing your IP address, which can be done, even if you have a static. If changing your IP address is inconvenient because you are hosting something important off of it, then I'd say stop using an important connection to piss people off.
}

THING TWO {
ColeopTer's idea is great. The only modification I'd throw on it is instead of giving everyone the right to mark posts/threads for deletion, give that ability to a couple of people. And by "couple" I really mean anyone you know, on any level. This prevents some jerk from registering a hundred runryder accounts just so he can click delete a hundred times. If you give the ability to say, 50 people, that will be useful enough.
}

UNCOUNTED THING {
People who live in fear because they have a cable connection and think any old hacker can get into their computer really have some learning to do. Just keeping up with windowsupdate.microsoft.com or simply not using Windows is more than enough to keep your stuff secure. Antivirus software is a pretty good thing, depending on how you handle your email, but I haven't had it on any of my three personal machines for years, and haven't gotten a virus once. And the "firewalling" software doesn't really help things either. All the firewalling software will do is prevent a service from being used. If you have a service on your computer that you don't want used, remove it. If you don't know its there to begin with, then you have other problems to worry about.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I feel really sorry for people who fear what they don't understand and are unwilling to learn it better.
}
05-21-2002 09:49 AM
 
 
Madcow
Senior Heliman
Location: Mackay, QLD, Australia

hmmm....

Mark,
I am probably not fully aware of the trouble that Bozos can cause however, I think you have to place your trust in the majority of trustworthy members. If they want to vent their spleen at the occasional passing Bozo, I say, let them. I can't be sure of exactly how much you are having to delete or not, but in the end despite this frustration, PLEASE have faith that your members are not as frustrated by this as you probably are. I come here for the wealth of information provided and if I have to wade past a few stupid threads, so be it.

I am sure that the more force you try to impose, the bigger the problem will become. I'm positive this would be more detremental to RunRyder than the current state of things. I just don't think anyone will leave this forum simply because of the bozos.

Instead of asking:
What should I do about Bozos?
Start with the more fundamental questions:
1) What things do members like about RunRyder/ what keeps them here?
2) What things would make members leave RunRyder?

My two answers would be:
1) I like the fact that there are many, many members and many of whom are very knowledgable and helpful
2) I would only leave if enough other people left

If it turns out that Bozos are not a big issue, I would treat them as a non-issue as best I could.


Doug,
I would have considered you intelligent enough to detect a frustration from a threat... or am I wrong?
Furthermore, you've made your rash guesses about Mark's business before and as before you're... making stuff up. It's kinda funny though :P
05-21-2002 10:02 AM
 
 
clive45
Veteran
Location: NSW Australia

Bozo's

In the old days girls got upset because boys whistled at them. They soon learned that ignoring them worked. They found someone else to anoy. I agree with these guys, ignore them.
you have to pity them, because they have so little in thier lives to enjoy.
As kids they knocked on doors and ran away, they have not grown up yet.
Fly safe & enjoy
05-21-2002 10:50 AM
 
 
heliman41
Key Veteran
Location: Valparaiso IN. USA

Mark, the simple fact is this: Ignore the troubling posts and the troublemakers will cease to keep replying to nothing. Problem is reality, and the reality is that there are several members that dont start trouble but cant back down from a fight either, they are as bad as the original bozos for keeping it going. That is the real prob, there are two sides to every page. Folks here take everything way too serious and personally thats why the arguments start and sometimes dont stop on its own. Bad tempers...................actually I enjoy watching both corners come out and box it out, it shows me exactly their temper control and how they exercise self control or not. All they are doing is showing their lack thereof................................nuff said, let the shows begin!
05-21-2002 12:12 PM
 
 
Smokecover
Heliman
Location: Norfolk Va.

.Posted By ColeopTer

If you place a couple of buttons or links on each post to vote for deleting that post and the other one for deleting the whole thread then you would have not one person with excesive power but a concensus from several people that agreed by their votes to delete that particular post or thread.

If you set the threshold to say 8 votes then you wouldn't have to be policing the place all the time. People would be careful to make sure that what their post is not offensive or BS just to make sure their posts are not automatically deleted by the majority. Having one's posts deleted by the majority gives a person a clear indication that the majority thinks his posts are BS. Also keeping and publishing a counter on how many posts that person has had deleted along with how many posts they have would also indicate how reliable their information is.

If several knowledgeable users vote for deletion of somebody's answer for finding it to be misleading then you've given experts the power to direct the discussion a bit. This would also solve the feeling that your posts are at a single person's discretion when maybe you don't respect that moderator's opinion anyway.

This sounds Like an Excellent Idea.

The threads could be deleted, or sent to a "Stupid Post" forum, where they can still be seen until the the person who posted it decides to delete it. If it's a single post within a thread that is out of line or just so far off topic for that particular thread, it could get a big and I mean BIG AND RED STUPID STAMP across the response until it's creator deletes it or 1 week has passed, whichever comes first
05-21-2002 12:16 PM
 
 
Maxx
Key Veteran
Location: Shreveport Louisana

In any Society (and the Internet and this specific site meet that criteria) you need Rules (which you have) and someone to enforce those rules (which you do not have). Either one without the other is at best a waste of time and at worst dangerous. I have RR as my primary site; I come here to ask and answer questions, see what others in the Hobby are doing and sometimes get a good laugh! You have in the past published your Forum rules and by and large most people try to follow them but some people (as in any society) choose to ignore rules and do as they please. Call them Trolls or Bozos or whatever you will, without constant monitering (Mods) the trolling bozos will start problems that cause ever the most forthright forum member to loose his/her cool and answer the Bozo post and the fur starts to fly! Or someone starts an innocent post and by the time ten people answer the "thread drift" causes name calling and parentage to be brought into question...if you don't have full time mods (and I wish you did) then I too like ColeopTers idea. I have found that the people who scream most about the decline of the First Amendment are the same ones who start the most trouble in any society or group, not to effect positive change...but to see what control (if any) they can exert over the rest of the society with their behaviour. I don't advocate tracking down those with poor grammar or newbies who don't know where to find the search feature and beating them with a rubber hose...( ah, the good ol' days...) just the ability to delete offensive or rude posts or maybe insert a gentle reminder to stay on the Thread topic... I hope you get this sorted out, I like Run Ryder... Chris
05-21-2002 03:42 PM
 
 
Kurt64
Veteran
Location: Salladasburg, PA

The worst "trolls" have probably never seen a R/C heli much less owned one.... they are the worst ones to deal with. They are the type that will go away if not responded to. Unfortunately, the troublemakers that actually own R/C helis won't stop the garbage unless more action is taken. When I was an assistant admin at "that other site", the idea of making it a pay-for-use site was considered. Any troll that is not part of the R/C community would not pay just to disrupt the forums, and any R/C pilot would tend to be more careful in their posts just for the fact of having to repay their dues for re-registration when their IP address gets zapped because of constant inappropriate behavior. Unfortunately, there are too many other free sites, and the honest users tend to just move to another forum.
Having a Troll Counter Zap Button, as mentioned before, only invites the trouble makers to play with a new toy.... they can spend their obviously extensive free time playing with all of the zap buttons, adding votes for any post, and effectively causing even more headaches.
The simplest solution is to start utilizing some help from the more experienced and level headed users that could assist in the policing of the forums. Add a "moderator only" forum that only they could access and discuss problems. It worked fairly well at "that other site" (until the owner pulled the plug on the entire forum), and there were MANY more posts per day just due to the more generic nature of the site.
Just deleting the troll's posts will not stop all of the problems. Due to the nature of the internet and its users, a trouble free site will never exist unless a sizeable fee is charged to the 3 or 4 remaining users that were willing to pay for access. IMO, moderation help is the key.
05-21-2002 04:31 PM
 
 
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