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Aerial Photography and Video > Digital Camcorder Recommendations, Please
 
 
JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: City of California in the state of Maryland

Hello,
After looking again at the $225 price of the awesome Sony KPC650 SuperHAD, 480 lines of resolution, low lux (0.05) camera; I figured I was too close to the price of a digital camcorder to not go that route.

So, I'm now looking at the Sony DCR-TRV260 Digital8 camcorder with 20x optical zoom. It can be purchased for $289. Does anyone have any good or bad things to say about this camcorder for aerial video work? The reviews are overall positive for it.

One review of the DCR-TRV260 mentioned that the miniDV format JVC GR-D33 has better color and is about the same price. However, after further reading of MiniDV vs Digital8, I think I would rather stay with Digital8. It seems that miniDV is more prone to dropouts and the tapes are much more fragile.

Any comments welcome.

Thanks,
John Kos
06-14-2004 Over year old.
 
 
gpyros
Key Veteran
Location: On a beach in Mexico

John:

I think you have it backwards - DV would be a step above Digital-8. The only reason to go with Digital-8 would be if you had a lot of Hi-8 tapes since the Digital-8 machines will play those back.

The best would be a 3-chip DV camera, with optical image stabilization a plus - but then you're getting a bit higher in price.

Greg

Maxi-Joker helicam
Joker-CX helicam
Graupner Jet Ranger (elec)
Raptor-50
Logo-10
9CH
06-14-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
groundeffect
Key Veteran
Location: Newfoundland Canada

What do you think of these DV cameras?

I am also in the market for a new video camera, DV video camera that is.

I am thinking Canon or Sony, something lite weight.

any recommendations?

How about:

Canon ZR80 Mini DV Camcorder:
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/pr...14&WLBS=fsweb16
485g weight


Sony DCR-HC20 handy cam
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/pr...d=&newdeptid=14
365g weight


what do you think ?

Cheers,
Dean
06-14-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: City of California in the state of Maryland

> I think you have it backwards - DV would be a step above Digital-8.

The video quality is 100% identical (as in ultimately up to the camera) since the compression/decompression is identical. Again, this is from reading several comparisons of the formats... miniDV has more problems with dropouts and the tapes are more fragile. The only "step above" for DV is the smaller size and longer possible recording time.

I don't mind the larger Digital8 size and I've had a Sony Digital8 for the family for several years now.

I don't know... I'm looking at the JVC GR-D33 unit which is miniDV again.

> The best would be a 3-chip DV camera

But of course; but, uhhhh, the price goes high immediately. Much more than I'm looking at spending right now.

groundeffect,
If you want some great camcorder reviews check out www.camcorderinfo.com. Looks like the JVC GR-D33 has better image quality then the Canon ZR80. The Sony DCR-HC20 is better than both of these but also much more expensive ($379 vs $269 for the JVC and $289 for the Canon).

Thanks,
John
06-14-2004 Over year old.
 
 
FCM
Elite Veteran
Location: Back in Blighty!

I've been using a Sony MiniDV camcorder for a while now without any drop-out problems or tape problems at all. I understand that Mini DV tapes are a bit more fragile than say Digital 8 tapes but when used with due care, I don't think you can use this as a prime reason for not using Mini DV.

When I started out with my video I was advised by an experienced camcopter video operator to stick with Sony cams as they have the most robust tape mechanisms. I can attest that they are tough!

Plenty of guys here using other makes of Mini DV cam though so I guess that most modern models are okay to use.

There are a lot of nice mini DV cams to be had now so perhaps you will find a greater selection of Mini DV models when compared to Digital 8. I think the single chip Mini DV cams are a bit lighter and smaller if weight is an issue.

Paul.
06-14-2004 Over year old.
 
 
groundeffect
Key Veteran
Location: Newfoundland Canada

what is "drop out"?

what is "drop out"?

Thanks,
Dean
06-14-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
groundeffect
Key Veteran
Location: Newfoundland Canada

SONY DCR-HC20!

John, thanks -- I wish I had the $379.00 to think about when it comes to getting the Sony DCR-HC20 handy cam, as it is here in Canada it's $799.00 CAD.

I am very interested in this SONY DCR-HC20!

checking reviews on it...



cheers,
Dean
06-14-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
FCM
Elite Veteran
Location: Back in Blighty!

Dean,

Having never knowingly experienced 'drop out' I cannot give you an informed definition but I think it is when the tape fails to record the digital image data for a short duration of time (I imagine) but I'm sure there are people on this forum better qualified to describe this than I am!

All I know is I get a good, clean, continous image when I download the tape onto my computer.

Paul
06-14-2004 Over year old.
 
 
JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: City of California in the state of Maryland

grouneffect,
> I wish I had the $379.00 to think about when it comes to getting the
> Sony DCR-HC20 handy cam, as it is here in Canada it's $799.00
> CAD

Who says you can't order it from the US? I guess you always risk paying customs fees, but it would still have to be less.

Dean,
As FCM said, dropout is when you loose video (and/or audio) for a fraction of a second.

All,
> lot of nice mini DV cams to be had now ... find a greater selection of
> Mini DV models when compared to Digital 8.

Very true as there are only two Digital8 models currently available. Seems Sony to be dropping Digital8 slowly but surely.

Thanks for the great responses thus far. I look more at the miniDV models out there.

Thanks,
John
06-14-2004 Over year old.
 
 
groundeffect
Key Veteran
Location: Newfoundland Canada

What is the difference in MiniDV and DV??

What is the difference in MiniDV and DV??






thanks,
Dean
06-14-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
gpyros
Key Veteran
Location: On a beach in Mexico

I can't recall having a dropout on a DV tape. But then we are very careful not to let them get overheated, never leave them in direct sun, etc.

The other thing we always do is to always black a new tape before using it. It can be as simple as putting it in record and leaving the lens cap on it. This also loosens up the tape, sometimes the automatic winding machines can wrap the tape a little tight.

Another advantage of this is that it gives you continuous time code even when you stop and start recording after that.

Greg

Maxi-Joker helicam
Joker-CX helicam
Graupner Jet Ranger (elec)
Raptor-50
Logo-10
9CH
06-14-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: City of California in the state of Maryland

Thanks Greg, good info. I'm expanding my look at miniDV cameras but I'm still trying to stay on the "low end" price wise.

Dean,
I believe "DV" is simply an abreviation of "MiniDV".

- John
06-14-2004 Over year old.
 
 
groundeffect
Key Veteran
Location: Newfoundland Canada

reuse DV tapes?

Do you reuse DV tapes?

Thanks,
Dean
06-14-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
gpyros
Key Veteran
Location: On a beach in Mexico

Quote 
Do you reuse DV tapes?


Only for testing and playing around, never for a client.

Greg

Maxi-Joker helicam
Joker-CX helicam
Graupner Jet Ranger (elec)
Raptor-50
Logo-10
9CH
06-14-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: City of California in the state of Maryland

One issue I'm seeing with the Sony miniDV cameras is the bottom loading tape mechanism. Seems like that would be a pain in the rear on a aerial setup since you would have to take the camera off the mount everytime you need to change a tape. Comments?

Thanks,
John
06-14-2004 Over year old.
 
 
groundeffect
Key Veteran
Location: Newfoundland Canada

I am VERY CLOSE to picking this camera up.

I can deal with bottom loading.. a typical tape is 60mins, I can aford to change tapes and batt at one time each hour.

I just got back from the tech shop, I took another close look at the Sony HC-20.

I am VERY close to picking this camera up.

I think ( from what I have read and seen ) its a great place to start with video.

-Its lite
-its small
-its high quality



I am VERY CLOSE to picking this camera up.


Cheers,
Dean
06-14-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
gpyros
Key Veteran
Location: On a beach in Mexico

Quote 
I am VERY CLOSE to picking this camera up.


I don't care how close you are, how close is your heli to picking it up? Sorry, couldn't resist, Dean!

Greg

Maxi-Joker helicam
Joker-CX helicam
Graupner Jet Ranger (elec)
Raptor-50
Logo-10
9CH
06-14-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
groundeffect
Key Veteran
Location: Newfoundland Canada

Well, I am running a Voyager 50 E right now and it runs fine for jobs now.

Canon A80 ( 250g )

Sony HC-20 ( 380g )

Yes, it can left it.



cheers,
Dean
06-14-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
flyboy
Elite Veteran
Location: California

I have had great luck with the Sony camcorders. I am not that knowledgable about the merits of the different formats but everything we are using is DV. I have had great luck with the Sony TRV series, on the larger camerships we are using the Sony VX2000, VX1000, PD150 and a Canon that I forgot the name of.

I would strongly suggest hanging the nicest camera that you can afford/justify from your platform, the quality shows.
06-15-2004 Over year old.
 
 
JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: City of California in the state of Maryland

Great discussion and info here. Thanks guys.

Well, I ordered a Pro 60 mount from HeliCam Solutions. I'll be using it with my flying buddies digital camera and my Sony Digital8 camcorder.

My DCR-TRV120 is about 3.5 yrs old and weighs 2.5 lbs ready-to-tape. If everything goes well, I will most likely pick up one of the newer miniDV machines and drop more than a 1.5 lbs from the setup. I do like the Sony miniDV cameras, but the bottom loading seems rather inconvienient.

Thanks,
John
06-15-2004 Over year old.
 
 
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