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e-Miniature Aircraft Furion - Razor - Ion-X > Questions on ION too!
 
 
Islander
Heliman
Location: Stanford, CA

Hi-
anybody flew the ION yet?
I have a couple of questions for this new machine, please enlight me.
1. does it really fly like a 80/90 IC heli like MA claims? what is the
power of the brushless motor? It would be at least 1500 watts to be
near 2hp like a .90 IC engine.
2. how do you know the battery is near flat? If you use a timer to do this,
it would be dangerous if the batt is degraded after many flights or
improper maintenance.

regards
05-06-2004 Over year old.
 
 
JonMann
Senior Heliman
Location: Clayton, CA

Been flying mine everyday for the past week.

Yes, it does have 90 power! This is a very nice heli, very smooth, very powerful. I'll have a second one in the air this weekend.

The Hacker ESC does not have a battery voltage cutoff, so the only way is to use a timer, and keep a close eye on what you are discharging & charging with each flight. Not really a big deal.
05-06-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Islander
Heliman
Location: Stanford, CA

Hi Misskimo and JonMann:
Thanks for reply, it is really amazing to find out that an electical motor could pump out 3000Watts. The peak current would be 60A! on average, how long does it take to recharge the batt pack? What type of batt is that? Li-poly or NiMh? I am thinking of getting one now.
05-07-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Islander
Heliman
Location: Stanford, CA

Hi:
I forgot to ask a crucial question, is it faster than an IC .90 heli?
05-07-2004 Over year old.
 
 
JonMann
Senior Heliman
Location: Clayton, CA

It is everything a IC.90 size heli is and more, some things less (more stable, no smoke, less vibration, less cleanup, less stuff to haul around to make it fly -just need heli-batteries-radio, more fun, less work).

I am using the TP Lipo's, everything is working great!
05-07-2004 Over year old.
 
 
scott s.
Veteran
Location: Orange, Ca.

Where are you getting the packs from? Called Min-Air ,they say they`ve been shipped bet heliproz or ricks doesn`t have them. Also does anyone have any canopys painted for ion`s? Arizona heli is way behind and so is Just canopys
05-07-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Bonsai
Senior Heliman
Location: Bacolod, Philippines

Try Wade Mcgee for your canopy needs ..Hes doing a set for me..
Dean
05-07-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Islander
Heliman
Location: Stanford, CA

How about range?

Does the ESC cut the effective range of the radio? This is another concern.
05-07-2004 Over year old.
 
 
chriss
Senior Heliman
Location: Sunny Florida

"it is really amazing to find out that an electical motor could pump out 3000Watts. The peak current would be 60A! on average"

Actually, it's quite a bit more than that due to voltage depression under load of the batteries. 3000 watts may be a little zealous but 2500 certainly is not. This would equate to very roughly 70 amps, which at 35 volts on a fresh pack is not unrealistic...for a short spikes at any rate.

I have not been able to detect any "reduction" of the effective radio range with any power combination I have tested in the Ion. And I fly with UBEC's too. Also, I typically fly my Ion back to back with an Extreme and have noted no difference in that way between them. Some of the outrunners can cause some wierd gyro interactions, but other than that, nothing. We laid out the frames with this in mind, you'll notice that the radio gear is all as far from the power train as possible.

Sticking my neck out a little here, I could paint a few canopies for those who are not really picky. I usually just do a few fades and maybe some pinstripes. I tend towards the "dayglow" colors as they work for me. PM me if you just have to have someone paint for you and we'll work something out.

Chris
05-08-2004 Over year old.
 
 
rscamp
Veteran
Location: Ontario, Canada

I forgot to ask a crucial question, is it faster than an IC .90 heli?

What can make an electric heli "faster" than an IC heli is the particular setup. There is more variability in the power system so you can tweak for duration or power.

Your choice.

Rob
05-08-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Islander
Heliman
Location: Stanford, CA

Why not a outrunner?

Hi Chriss:
Then why don't you guys in MA choose a outrunner motor as a standard combo but a in-runner one like Jacker + "two stage reduction"? Is it the power or price or ???

thanks
05-09-2004 Over year old.
 
 
chriss
Senior Heliman
Location: Sunny Florida

Islander

The reasons for the Hacker were several:

1) It IS the high peformance solution, It gets this due to it's higher efficiency. For the Ion-X, we wanted a no compromise, high performance machine, right out of the box. There are several other motors that come close, but can have issues due to their slightly lower efficiency...namely heating.
2) Hacker is willing to work with us to develop special motors to meet our needs.
3) Hacker can produce.
4) Hacker has fantastic service and representation through Aero model in Arizona.
5) The Hacker motor/speed control system works, period. No start up issues, no radio issues, no gyro issues, nothing. Just fit and forget or as close to that as is currently possible.

Does this mean other motors will not work or work very well? Absolutely not! I have tested many very good motors and will recommend them to anyone who asks, I can even provide motor mounts and gearing. We knew people would want to use outrunners and we planned for it. The kit IS available that way...single stage with whatever gearing/mounting you want. Have I looked at ALL the possible motors out there? No, who could? There are many I still want to try and will eventually. This takes time but I'll get there. Choosing/recommending a motor for a kit is not as easy for me as it may be for a modeller, I have to go out and learn everything about that motor and what makes it tick, if I don't...well, you know. And when I do find out these things, you guys will get the info with a phone call or right here.

Chris
05-10-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Islander
Heliman
Location: Stanford, CA

Hi Chriss:
thanks for these informative responses. Now I can catch your ideas. Hopefully I can get other options for power chain for the ION shortly. It is too expensive right now, USD$2000 for the whole combo(heli, ESC, motor. good batt, good charger) without the radio and gyro....
Is MA going to obsolete non-eCCPM setup? I mean the possibility to get a mechanical mixing ION in some time.


thanks
05-10-2004 Over year old.
 
 
chriss
Senior Heliman
Location: Sunny Florida

I can't really see a reason why we would want to do a mechanically mixed heli again. We do still make the Pro2K, SE, ST, 30 and Gasser, which are all mCCPM. But the trend is towards 3D these days and it seems that for 3D, eCCPM is the ticket.

Most everything about it is just much better, lower parts count, cost, weight. Higher simplicity, ease of assembly. eCCPM is clearly the right choice for what 95% of the pilots want. And things are improving all the time. Look at how much better the radio gear has gotten in the last five years with better transmitter software and servos.

My original conversion was a combination of a 46 and 60 graphite and a handfull of parts I made myself...it weighs more than the Ion-x and has a much sloppier (is that a word?) control system. But it does fly well, not nearly as good as the Ion-X, but it does fly well.

Chris
05-10-2004 Over year old.
 
 
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e-Miniature Aircraft Furion - Razor - Ion-X > Questions on ION too!
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